LeDecline? LeBron James is shooting 28.5% outside of the paint this season.
- Thread starter Vega-0021
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giveupthegoods
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dab7291993
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He just needs to take better shots in my opinion, he is at a point in his career where he needs to take a more off ball approach and stick to catch and shoot situations and less of the pull up and turn around jumpers.
If he is truly a student of the game or actually into analytics like he says he is he should know he'd be best served taking better shots and playing off the ball more.
We will see how it develops with Kyrie back.
If he is truly a student of the game or actually into analytics like he says he is he should know he'd be best served taking better shots and playing off the ball more.
We will see how it develops with Kyrie back.
Vega-0021
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He's missing open shots, too.
bdiddy5115
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Yeah I definitely haven't watched him much this year, but his J was visibly off for much of last year as well. Strange because he had become a very consistent shooter from all ranges in Miami, and he actually lost weight before the '14-'15 season (which usually helps).
But he needs to stop fucking around. He gets more freedom in Cleveland than in Miami, and also handles the ball quite a bit more. This equals more shots off the dribble, more contested shots (fadeaways) and more fatigue...all on top of whatever mental block he has with shooting atm.
I've said it quite a few times, but they need him to get back up to 260ish, and for him to play extensively at the PF spot. Bron's shot-selection was fantastic from '12-'14, and that can only help in getting some rhythm/confidence back. This of course depends on Kyrie being healthy to be the primary ball-handler, and it might mean Love should be dealt (ideally for a Jimmy Butler type).
Run a Mozgov/LeBron/Butler (arbitrary example)/Shump/Kyrie lineup with Thompson/Smith and company off the bench. That's a team better suited for 30+ LeBron, and would probably stand a good chance against GS or SA.
But he needs to stop fucking around. He gets more freedom in Cleveland than in Miami, and also handles the ball quite a bit more. This equals more shots off the dribble, more contested shots (fadeaways) and more fatigue...all on top of whatever mental block he has with shooting atm.
I've said it quite a few times, but they need him to get back up to 260ish, and for him to play extensively at the PF spot. Bron's shot-selection was fantastic from '12-'14, and that can only help in getting some rhythm/confidence back. This of course depends on Kyrie being healthy to be the primary ball-handler, and it might mean Love should be dealt (ideally for a Jimmy Butler type).
Run a Mozgov/LeBron/Butler (arbitrary example)/Shump/Kyrie lineup with Thompson/Smith and company off the bench. That's a team better suited for 30+ LeBron, and would probably stand a good chance against GS or SA.
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Shouldn't be that big of a surprise. Lebron's been in the league since 2003. He peaked as a player from 2009-2013. It's bound to happen eventually as he gets north of 30. Although shooting 30% outside of the paint is rather alarming.
Miami was perfect for him. Great defense and excellent spacing (even going 5-out at times). Surrounded by great shooting and veterans.
He wasn't the best player in the league last year, certainly hasn't been so far this year, and he looks noticeably worse at a number of things. So yeah, I'd say it's pretty much official.
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dab7291993
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I'm not denying that but in watching all the games I'd say his biggest problem is the quality of his shots more so than an overall decline. He makes everything too hard and without Kyrie he hasn't had much to play off of.
Like I said, we will see how it develops with Kyrie. His shooting is definitely a concern but I'm very confident it can be better. We're just lucky he's still able to score at 48% even with poor shooting.
giveupthegoods
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and people still think he's the best because of "potential" and "turning the switch on"
Let's all take a look shall we:
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/tracking/shots/
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/tracking/shots/
He should take another two week break
He averaged 36/13/9 in the Finals. He hasn't been great this season but he had one of the best single game performances in history. There's a reason people think he has that ability to turn on another switch. He's done it before.and people still think he's the best because of "potential" and "turning the switch on"
giveupthegoods
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While taking 40+ shots on horrible efficiency.He averaged 36/13/9 in the Finals. He hasn't been great this season but he had one of the best single game performances in history. There's a reason people think he has that ability to turn on another switch. He's done it before.and people still think he's the best because of "potential" and "turning the switch on"
BuffRustpeck
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I'm not a detective but he showed up two training camps ago about 20-30 pounds lighter and lost a lot of muscle mass after the league announced they were going to start testing for HGH down the line. After that point, he wasn't the same player.
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Even if he was on PEDs and they found it they wouldn't do anything.
It would kill the league to announce that LeBron James has been cheating his whole career
Give up the goods really thinks Kawhi is better than Lebron lmao
KimKHusband
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It would actually bring tons of press and be the biggest story in the world. NBA would secretly love that
giveupthegoods
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Atm yeah he is. You got any stats to back up your claim?
BaruchCollege
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hes declining. after 13 years in the league i would say thats normal.
[URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/giveupthegoods.4755043/'][URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/giveupthegoods.4755043/'][URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/giveupthegoods.4755043/']@giveupthegoods[/URL][/URL][/URL] on/off is +25. only steph and draymond on the 29-1 warriors have higher(+28). hes got the 2nd most points in the paint per game in the league by .1. Bron shoulders a bigger workload, and has had no shump or kyrie for a bunch of games.
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RocketGuy3
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You would think that as he ages, his ability to get into the paint and produce at such a high rate would be the first thing to take a hit. I don't think losing his J is a sign of aging, especially considering the rate it was improving up until the last couple years. There's a reason jumpshooters tend to have some of the longer careers.
I assume his problem is either different defenses, shitty Cavs offense, or lack of discipline on Lebron's part (didn't practice/work on his J as much over the summer as usual, maybe). Haven't watched that many Cavs games, though, so can't really say.
I assume his problem is either different defenses, shitty Cavs offense, or lack of discipline on Lebron's part (didn't practice/work on his J as much over the summer as usual, maybe). Haven't watched that many Cavs games, though, so can't really say.
LeBronJames23MVP
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Where can I find stats for points in the paint per game?
giveupthegoods
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Kawhi 2nd in WS, WS/48, 3rd in BPM and RPM and 4th in PER, 17th in TS%. Only one in front of him in all those categories is Curry. Lebron is behind in all and is only 2nd in ppg in the paint because...reread this thread again. He can no longer handle the workload he's asked to do especially since he turns 31 tomorrow and has played over 36,000 minutes in the NBA alone.
Just give up the ceremonial torch already.
LeDecline has been happening since his peak in 2013. He's been on a downward trend since, although a declining LeBron is still top 3 this year and arguably best in the league the previous two seasons.
I'm not surprised that his jumpshot has been pretty bad this season, wasn't expecting it to be the worst in the league though. His jumper has been pretty bad since last year's playoffs so I won't even consider it a sample size issue, I don't see it get much better from here on out.
I'm not surprised that his jumpshot has been pretty bad this season, wasn't expecting it to be the worst in the league though. His jumper has been pretty bad since last year's playoffs so I won't even consider it a sample size issue, I don't see it get much better from here on out.
Check this site. I'm sure NBA.com's SportsVu works as well but my computer isn't loading it for some reason
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giveupthegoods
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lol still top 3
Sandman822
Star
Is it a decline, or is it simply because he's back in the cursed town of Cleveland?
I mean you didn't see the Heat lose both Wade and Bosh in any of their finals series while LeBron was there did you?
Also, it is just a coincidence that LeBron's best jumpshooting days were in Miami?
Or that LeBron saw his best efficiency while away from Cleveland?
Or that LeBron returned to form last season after a two week vacation in Miami? Then subsequently dropped back to inefficient LeBron after a few months?
The same phenomena has struck Love with his downgrade in play and injuries, used to be an all star now he's a forgotten 3rd option. Imagine if Kyrie got drafted to a decent city, probably be a top 5 player in the league right now.
Hate to say it, but Cleveland is a black hole for talent.
I mean you didn't see the Heat lose both Wade and Bosh in any of their finals series while LeBron was there did you?
Also, it is just a coincidence that LeBron's best jumpshooting days were in Miami?
Or that LeBron saw his best efficiency while away from Cleveland?
Or that LeBron returned to form last season after a two week vacation in Miami? Then subsequently dropped back to inefficient LeBron after a few months?
The same phenomena has struck Love with his downgrade in play and injuries, used to be an all star now he's a forgotten 3rd option. Imagine if Kyrie got drafted to a decent city, probably be a top 5 player in the league right now.
Hate to say it, but Cleveland is a black hole for talent.
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dab7291993
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At least you have Morton Salt Co.
TabathaFiat
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i think there is definitely an argument to be made for kawhi over lebron right now. lebron's defense has been pretty bad, his shot selection has been bad, and his efficiency is bad.
It's more that he can't hit open jumpers and less that he's declining. A player declining is usually associated with decreased athleticism from an aging body.
That being said, he is definitely not as athletic as he used to be, but that shouldn't explain his complete inability to hit jumpers. He's still shooting 70+% at the rim, where decreased athleticism should have the biggest impact.
I think he's just in a major, major shooting slump, and if he somehow manages to come out of this slump, his numbers will return to near 2013 form.
Edit: LeBron's defense has been sensational this year and if you say otherwise you're just not watching games. Last year he was bad, and that rhetoric seems to be carrying over to this year, when in reality he's been really, really good.
That being said, he is definitely not as athletic as he used to be, but that shouldn't explain his complete inability to hit jumpers. He's still shooting 70+% at the rim, where decreased athleticism should have the biggest impact.
I think he's just in a major, major shooting slump, and if he somehow manages to come out of this slump, his numbers will return to near 2013 form.
Edit: LeBron's defense has been sensational this year and if you say otherwise you're just not watching games. Last year he was bad, and that rhetoric seems to be carrying over to this year, when in reality he's been really, really good.
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BaruchCollege
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I've watched him play this season and plenty of times he's not closed out hard enough on shooters, fought around screens, and sometimes doesnt even bother getting a hand up. He hasn't been as bad as everyone's saying but he's hardly been sensational
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giveupthegoods
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Lebrons defense isnt that bad, but the dude lowkey is a bigger Harden taking plays off. With that being said Kawhis defense is still tons better and that's what puts him over the edge (he has a better DRPM, DBPM, DRtg, DWS, DRB%, BLK%, STL%) as a whole.
People need to accept the fact Lebron is no longer the best (that's Curry) and accept the fact he's 5th.
People need to accept the fact Lebron is no longer the best (that's Curry) and accept the fact he's 5th.
J-D15
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Who is in your Top 4?
BaruchCollege
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Lol there aren't 4 players better than him. I'd take kawhi and curry over him this season but he's at worst 3rd best
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J-D15
oh hey!
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Durant and Westbrook are better than Lebron.
lebrick
BaruchCollege
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Lol no. Durant maybe has a case but Westbrook is highly overrated. He can put up monster stats but he can't lead his team to wins unless Durant is there with him.
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giveupthegoods
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You named them all
1. Curry
2-4. KD, Westbrook and Kawhi.
Lol @ this board underrating Bestbrook. They all have better PER, WS, WS/48 and TS%
Did you watch the Thunder last year? Westbrook carried them while Durant was out for the season.
BaruchCollege
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they didn't make the playoffs and they were under .500 during that 10 game triple double streak.
They also won 45 games in a historically tough conference and Westbrook missed like 20 games too. If he was healthy the entire year they would have made the playoffs.
ESR_balla
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RocketGuy3
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Many of those 45 wins were with the help of Durant. He played 27 hobbled games, and they went 18-9 with him in the lineup. Including some wins, IIRC, without Westbrook.
If you had only Westbrook and no Durant on that team all year, they don't even sniff the playoffs, even if Westbrook stays healthy.
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vmrp2001
I'm with stupid ^
I actually miss LeBron not isoing.
Curry
LeBron/Durant
Durant/LeBron
Westbrook
Davis
Griffin
Harden
Kawhi/George
George/Kawhi
LeBron/KD are interchangeable. Right now I'd take KD over Bron but It's hard to not want LeBron James over basically any other player in the league in a do or die game/series
Davis/Griffin/Harden are debate-able I guess
Kawhi/PG are interchangeable as-well, Kawhi's more consistent than George but George is the better player
LeBron/Durant
Durant/LeBron
Westbrook
Davis
Griffin
Harden
Kawhi/George
George/Kawhi
LeBron/KD are interchangeable. Right now I'd take KD over Bron but It's hard to not want LeBron James over basically any other player in the league in a do or die game/series
Davis/Griffin/Harden are debate-able I guess
Kawhi/PG are interchangeable as-well, Kawhi's more consistent than George but George is the better player
DNA1217-
Swaggie D
LeBron fucked up leaving Miami for Cleveland, he's too much of a fuckboi and needs a disciplinarian like The Godfather Riley to keep his bitchass straight.
#FuckLeBronJames
#FuckLeBronJames