Dante86dmc said:
Her summoning IS dancing (and chanting, but that's beside the point). She always moves in some sort of manner before striking a pose, and that's when the demon comes out. Otherwise, she just erotically dances, I guess.
Why Do So Many People Hate This Game?
- Thread starter Phoenixfire168
- Start date
Her summoning IS dancing (and chanting, but that's beside the point). She always moves in some sort of manner before striking a pose, and that's when the demon comes out. Otherwise, she just erotically dances, I guess.
Swordslayer. are you the dude i see now and then having epic debates with people, one i recall in the dmc board, with some user called Nero something?, or was that Swordmaster? ahh confuision.
I see, you also post at NG board. Your one of the few users I agree majority of the time when expressing your opinions and feel sorry for you as you get people, whom not in this world when proven wrong.
Therefore.....
You have my condolences![[face_rose]](https://cdn.statically.io/img/www.ignboards.com/styles/ign/ign/smilies/classic/rose.gif "Rose [face_rose]")
Its good you don't post here often, doesn't give you much stress unless you enjoy debating
I see, you also post at NG board. Your one of the few users I agree majority of the time when expressing your opinions and feel sorry for you as you get people, whom not in this world when proven wrong.
Therefore.....
You have my condolences
Its good you don't post here often, doesn't give you much stress unless you enjoy debating
@Malcom, lower defensive shields! I only pointed out the Bayonetta boss because it was the only instance that couldn’t be beaten by the katana combo, not because it was a crap boss fight. I also don’t consider myself a Bayonetta expert, just someone who has a reasonable amount of experience playing these types of games. I feel like I made this point abundantly clear before, so I don’t know why you’re having trouble ‘taking me serious’ now.
@Winter, I read your post, which is surprisingly long and well thought out for a first timer [face_suspicious]. I also have to say you asked one of the most poigniant questions here:
[blockquote]I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with your arguments here, but I think you're beating a dead horse if you're actually trying to convince us that we're defending a poorly designed game
-Wintersting[/blockquote]
I am smart enough to realize that trying to get you to dislike Bayonetta is as ridiculous as trying to convince someone that they play all videogames wrong, even if they enjoy said games! And just like there’s a community of Bayonetta fans, there is a community that didn’t care for the game much. Since this thread addressed the latter, I felt it was appropriate for me to respond. Another more practical reason I post to practice my critical writing skills. Most importantant of all, though, I post because I like it, and most of my posts have been to address direct questions or try to clear up misunderstandings. While this may lead to the philosphical question of “why do any of us post?”, I’ll let you all ponder that at 4:20 in your college dorm.
@Malcom and Winter
I suggest you re-read the conversation because I have already conceded points which you are still asking me to concede! I stopped insisting that the overall combat was poorly designed by my third post, and have often admit that it may be better on a harder difficulty which I did not play. I have also already conceded that both DMC and Bayonetta are exploitable! My issue with Bayonetta is that the exploits are far too obvious, and the first playthrough has no gameplay mechanics that encourage the player to not use them. The first playthough of Bayonetta was too easy to hold the attention of an experienced gamer such as myself. This is a design flaw, and as far as I’m concerned, is closer to the truth many here care to admit. While you all keep asking me to concede points I already conceded, can NONE of you even conceive the possibility that Bayonetta would have been better if the first playthrough couldn’t have been beaten by mere button mashing? Do you really think all games should begin with a 10+ hour tutorial?
@Kiera,
I actually agree with what you’ve said. Well, except for the parts about Bayonetta’s sexuality. But those points will have to wait on my focused Bayonetta/sexuality article. It’s almost done, and I think what I actually have to say may surprise you.
@Winter, I read your post, which is surprisingly long and well thought out for a first timer [face_suspicious]. I also have to say you asked one of the most poigniant questions here:
[blockquote]I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with your arguments here, but I think you're beating a dead horse if you're actually trying to convince us that we're defending a poorly designed game
-Wintersting[/blockquote]
I am smart enough to realize that trying to get you to dislike Bayonetta is as ridiculous as trying to convince someone that they play all videogames wrong, even if they enjoy said games! And just like there’s a community of Bayonetta fans, there is a community that didn’t care for the game much. Since this thread addressed the latter, I felt it was appropriate for me to respond. Another more practical reason I post to practice my critical writing skills. Most importantant of all, though, I post because I like it, and most of my posts have been to address direct questions or try to clear up misunderstandings. While this may lead to the philosphical question of “why do any of us post?”, I’ll let you all ponder that at 4:20 in your college dorm.
@Malcom and Winter
I suggest you re-read the conversation because I have already conceded points which you are still asking me to concede! I stopped insisting that the overall combat was poorly designed by my third post, and have often admit that it may be better on a harder difficulty which I did not play. I have also already conceded that both DMC and Bayonetta are exploitable! My issue with Bayonetta is that the exploits are far too obvious, and the first playthrough has no gameplay mechanics that encourage the player to not use them. The first playthough of Bayonetta was too easy to hold the attention of an experienced gamer such as myself. This is a design flaw, and as far as I’m concerned, is closer to the truth many here care to admit. While you all keep asking me to concede points I already conceded, can NONE of you even conceive the possibility that Bayonetta would have been better if the first playthrough couldn’t have been beaten by mere button mashing? Do you really think all games should begin with a 10+ hour tutorial?
@Kiera,
I actually agree with what you’ve said. Well, except for the parts about Bayonetta’s sexuality. But those points will have to wait on my focused Bayonetta/sexuality article. It’s almost done, and I think what I actually have to say may surprise you.
Rex_Maximus said:
You don't need to be an expert to make a valid criticism, which you are not doing. Yes, the katana combo is exploitable, but no more than Buster or Charge Shot. Your level of experience has nothing to do with this. Not that your coming off as reasonably experienced anyway. And we can't take you seriously because....
Rex_Maximus said:
No one is denying that there aren't valid reasons for disliking Bayonetta. ****ty story, some annoying music, lots of screentearing, and a freeform combat system may not be your thing, atleast to the extent bayonetta does it. That's okay, we're fine with that. What we are not fine with is your assertion that Bayonetta is completely ruined because of this one exploitable combo. That is ridiculous. If that's so, then you can't call any action game in existance a good action game because they all have a move that is more exploitable, more practical, more applicable than any others, and thus you never have any reason to use others over it. That's why Malcolm is calling you out on being hypocritical in your reasoning, because you have repeatedly called other action games good despite this.
Rex_Maximus said:
What you DO refuse to concede that the game is only broken and easy to you because YOU made it so. DMC4's buster is as exploitable as Bayonetta's katana combo and the game actively encourages you to use it. And yes, MANY people realized how abusable it was within the first few minutes of using it. You can't mash it, sure, but it's hardly like you have to be selective about it's utilization, atleast on normal difficulty. Even if we concede to your notion that Bayonetta is easier to exploit, it's so marginal that it doesn't really matter in practicality. And yet, it's bayonetta that's an easy and repetitious tutorial, not DMC4. And we've explain multiple times that this is not how your suppose to play the game. CAN you play the way you did? Sure, but that's only going to guarantee a dull experience. Again, I resort to my analogy: all you are doing here is insisting on driving a lamborghini on first gear for no reason other than 'it's how you roll'. It's a safe ride that'll definitely get you to the end, but that ISN'T how you are suppose to use a car like that. So yes, you are so doing it wrong. Absolutely wrong. I don't see how your so appalled and offended by this notion, nor do I understand why you choose to ignore it.
And am I the only one who finds it hilarious that you hide behind an exploitable combo and refuse to come out and then complain that the game is too easy or a tutorial (as if you can learn something when you refuse any and all experimentation)? It's such broken logic. You might as well find a cheat code for god mode and then complain that none of the enemies kill you.
FIRST OF ALL TO ALL
THE GAMEPLAY IS "DEEPER THAN THE PITS OF HELL", better than any game I've ever played an honestly with so many weapons, combinations, attacks combat sometimes feels a little overwhelming during combat "especially" during higher difficulty levels, and i always master buttoncontrol for chracters on games but I'm not even goignto attempt it.
Secondly, the soundtrack s amazing and this game is one of a kind and is a japanese action title which means your going to get this type of music and storytelling, for me the stpry makes complete sense for others NO, butthis is not everyones cup of tea and is a very unorthodox game as others state
Lastly, Bayonetta does not sell sex, it sells idealism tathersexiness is power and her confidence and slight arrogance is strength (if you didnt get that) and the story sells a very unorthodox reverse outlook on reality and religion and mythlogy, so if its not your cup of tea dont f**king play it, but as for those who have already the graphis are BREATHTAKING (there are some framerate issues) but it deservesevery bit of praise and a better PS3 rating because it was given a patch and my game actually rarely EVER slows down since ive gotten it...
...i will say tho some of the unlockable costumes are crap and i hate when games build an epitome of anxiety only to "rush" and give half-a** costumes, but other than that I FREAKING LOVE THIS GAME. That is all
THE GAMEPLAY IS "DEEPER THAN THE PITS OF HELL", better than any game I've ever played an honestly with so many weapons, combinations, attacks combat sometimes feels a little overwhelming during combat "especially" during higher difficulty levels, and i always master buttoncontrol for chracters on games but I'm not even goignto attempt it.
Secondly, the soundtrack s amazing and this game is one of a kind and is a japanese action title which means your going to get this type of music and storytelling, for me the stpry makes complete sense for others NO, butthis is not everyones cup of tea and is a very unorthodox game as others state
Lastly, Bayonetta does not sell sex, it sells idealism tathersexiness is power and her confidence and slight arrogance is strength (if you didnt get that) and the story sells a very unorthodox reverse outlook on reality and religion and mythlogy, so if its not your cup of tea dont f**king play it, but as for those who have already the graphis are BREATHTAKING (there are some framerate issues) but it deservesevery bit of praise and a better PS3 rating because it was given a patch and my game actually rarely EVER slows down since ive gotten it...
...i will say tho some of the unlockable costumes are crap and i hate when games build an epitome of anxiety only to "rush" and give half-a** costumes, but other than that I FREAKING LOVE THIS GAME. That is all
That explains all the Russian hentai of her as a dominatrix.tarin2sexi4u said:
Frankly, sex / "I am woman, hear me roar" aside, I find few issues on mechanics/logistics redeeming in Bayonetta.
Take that in your pipe and smoke it
![[face_dancing]](https://cdn.statically.io/img/www.ignboards.com/styles/ign/ign/smilies/classic/dancing.gif "Dancing [face_dancing]")
The only thing that I disliked about the game was how long it took to buy some thing from the gates of hell on my 1st go I was half way through and I still couldn't buy any thing.
Well...to those who do hate it..just dont play it and go do whatever that floats your boat. This game is very enjoyable. I still havent beaten it yet but it deserves the rates it got. I loved the DMC series and this is brings me the same joy and maybe more since the main character is a hot witch after all. I see no reason for someone hating this game. Its alot of action alot of options great detail and sexy.
I love this game!
since the main character is a hot witch after all. I see no reason for someone hating this game. Its alot of action alot of options great detail and sexy. I love this game!
Age_of_Reptiles said:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
I do find that a little aggravating but its not enough to make me dislike the game
Haters gonna hate.
I couldnt understand it either, one of my favourite games for a while.
And easily my favourite button-masher.
I couldnt understand it either, one of my favourite games for a while.
And easily my favourite button-masher.
all the things haters say and their reasons for not liking it, bull**** bull**** bull****. just dont play it. this game deserved every bit of the score it got and its a great action game that is on par with DMC series and GOW series. not saying its better than those games because i absolutely love them but its action is high up there and its never really boring at all. GOW may be the best out of the 3 i think.
Konvict, have you not beaten it yet? Scroll down below for my guide on how to beat Bayonetta on your first playthrough.
1) For every enemy, use your light, light, heavy attack.
2) Use the katana once you get it.
3) Dodge whenever you get attacked. Or think you're about to be attacked. Or if you just feel like it. It doesn't matter since there are no consequences.
1) For every enemy, use your light, light, heavy attack.
2) Use the katana once you get it.
3) Dodge whenever you get attacked. Or think you're about to be attacked. Or if you just feel like it. It doesn't matter since there are no consequences.
Other advice on life from the philosophy of Rex_Maximus:
Make a small menu for yourself that contains all the nutrients needed for a healthy body (such as tofu and others), and eat them and nothing else for the rest of your life. You are getting all that you need out of this menu, so there is no point in eating anything else. Pay no attention to taste.
You should make no attempt to improve your job, no matter what your grievances might be, if it's bringing you a check as it should.
Remember, if you are not pleased with something in your life, so long as it doesn't interfere with your daily routine, make no attempt to improve it. Because the point of life is to get through it, not enjoy it. If it's functional, that's all that's needed.
Make a small menu for yourself that contains all the nutrients needed for a healthy body (such as tofu and others), and eat them and nothing else for the rest of your life. You are getting all that you need out of this menu, so there is no point in eating anything else. Pay no attention to taste.
You should make no attempt to improve your job, no matter what your grievances might be, if it's bringing you a check as it should.
Remember, if you are not pleased with something in your life, so long as it doesn't interfere with your daily routine, make no attempt to improve it. Because the point of life is to get through it, not enjoy it. If it's functional, that's all that's needed.
Oh brother, I don't understand why people use misogyny to describe Bayonetta. Yes Bayonetta is sexy, but that does that make her inferior as a woman? No. Misogyny is the hatred of women. Bayonetta is a hot woman, but she is beautiful in other ways. She isn't just a woman, she is a powerful woman, who is calm, strong, and confident. She, a woman, was the key to saving the entire UNIVERSE, and "man"-kind. Nothing about her character says misogyny. I would also like to point out, that I can be a very sexual horndog of man, and I do view certain women as just pieces of sexual meat, but Bayonetta isn't that type of woman. She is the type of woman that actually gets my respect, because of her whole character. Another words, I feel Bayonetta would be "too good" for me, and deserves much better, plus she could kick my butt. Misogyny wouldn't create respect for women, and misogyny exist out of lack of respect for women. Misogyny, and Bayonetta in the same sentence? Please lol.
People hate the game, because it's not their typical man macho hero with deep voice with a lot of muscles bashing the bad guy. Also because people hate Sarah Palin, which they think look like her, which I don't see the resemblance other than the glasses. I actually seen comments from other people that it is too hard.
People hate the game, because it's not their typical man macho hero with deep voice with a lot of muscles bashing the bad guy. Also because people hate Sarah Palin, which they think look like her, which I don't see the resemblance other than the glasses. I actually seen comments from other people that it is too hard.
Because people don't understand the concept of 'more than one combo can be used'.
A friend of mine said it was horrible, when I asked why he couldn't really give me a reasonable answer.
Turns out he played on easy and spammed the punch combo over and over again.
A friend of mine said it was horrible, when I asked why he couldn't really give me a reasonable answer.
Turns out he played on easy and spammed the punch combo over and over again.
Here's a really simple answer for all of you. This game is everything that is wrong with games today.
You ever wonder why people don't take gamers seriously? You ever wonder why it is that they are still looked at as little nerds living at home masturbating in a sock, and never getting anywhere with a real women? You ever ask yourself, man why is it that every time i see some "gamer" on a television show they are presented like a socially awkward moron? Well this is one of those games that answers that question.
A game that the developers have glorified for how much work they put into the characters ass. A game where you get practically naked in order to pull off attacks. Where you seductively lick a lollipop in cut scenes. this game oozes sex, and it's not in a good way. It's a blatant means of attempting to sell a crap game.
Instead of presenting a good story, good game play, and an overall enjoyable experience; we are presented with a lack luster Devil May Cry re-hash, with a crap story ripped out of a hentai, and cleaned up just enough to not get an AO rating.
This game is the prime example of something that is aimed at a VERY specific audience, and is sold simply on it's flash, or in this case flesh.
Let me ask you guys and girls a question. If they put out a game, with a guy with long hair, that had to get naked every time he had to do a special attack would you play it? If instead of a girl with tight curves and large breast it was a guy with a huge bulge in his pants, would you play it? I mean same game, same suit, skin tight, but a guy with a package the same proportions as her breast? Would that be a game you would play. Same game play, same everything, EVERYTHING, but instead of breast and ass, it was balls and ass. Would you play that? I honestly want to know.
If you answer no to the above question, you have proven my point.
Now I know, we all know that sex sells, and it does; well might I add. But, the thing about it is, you have all of these people, that want to be taken seriously, that don't want to be regarded as the same losers they have been in pop culture and in general for years, then move away from this crap. Learn a little thing called tact.
now don't get me wrong, I don't just have a gripe with this game. I love Mass Effect, but I would be a hypocrite if I did not say something about it too or GTA IV for that matter. Sex sells, as I have stated, but it is not needed. If it is crucial, or even believable in the overall story, fine. We are all mainly adults, we can handle it. But something as blatant and honestly distasteful as this...come on. And you wonder why so many people hate it.
You ever wonder why people don't take gamers seriously? You ever wonder why it is that they are still looked at as little nerds living at home masturbating in a sock, and never getting anywhere with a real women? You ever ask yourself, man why is it that every time i see some "gamer" on a television show they are presented like a socially awkward moron? Well this is one of those games that answers that question.
A game that the developers have glorified for how much work they put into the characters ass. A game where you get practically naked in order to pull off attacks. Where you seductively lick a lollipop in cut scenes. this game oozes sex, and it's not in a good way. It's a blatant means of attempting to sell a crap game.
Instead of presenting a good story, good game play, and an overall enjoyable experience; we are presented with a lack luster Devil May Cry re-hash, with a crap story ripped out of a hentai, and cleaned up just enough to not get an AO rating.
This game is the prime example of something that is aimed at a VERY specific audience, and is sold simply on it's flash, or in this case flesh.
Let me ask you guys and girls a question. If they put out a game, with a guy with long hair, that had to get naked every time he had to do a special attack would you play it? If instead of a girl with tight curves and large breast it was a guy with a huge bulge in his pants, would you play it? I mean same game, same suit, skin tight, but a guy with a package the same proportions as her breast? Would that be a game you would play. Same game play, same everything, EVERYTHING, but instead of breast and ass, it was balls and ass. Would you play that? I honestly want to know.
If you answer no to the above question, you have proven my point.
Now I know, we all know that sex sells, and it does; well might I add. But, the thing about it is, you have all of these people, that want to be taken seriously, that don't want to be regarded as the same losers they have been in pop culture and in general for years, then move away from this crap. Learn a little thing called tact.
now don't get me wrong, I don't just have a gripe with this game. I love Mass Effect, but I would be a hypocrite if I did not say something about it too or GTA IV for that matter. Sex sells, as I have stated, but it is not needed. If it is crucial, or even believable in the overall story, fine. We are all mainly adults, we can handle it. But something as blatant and honestly distasteful as this...come on. And you wonder why so many people hate it.
Are you a man or a women? Seriously? You say it sells idealism, and sexiness of power? Who the hell taught you that? I mean seriously, do you think that a women running around in skimpy clothes is really empowering to her? knowing that wherever she goes there is going to be some dude having a masturbation fantasy about her? I mean come on, we're all adults, don't kid yourself.
I for one AM A MAN. And as such, I can say that this kind of crap is degrading. I mean seriously. At no point is this giving power back. Going and having sex on camera, or in this case being a scantly clad video game heroin that has to get practically nude to have any power, is not something that should feel liberating or empowering. I mean if you get off on people watching you, okay. or if you need the constant vindication that someone out there cares for you, then maybe this is your thing. But let me tell you, from a guys perspective, we could give a rats ass about how this makes you feel. We don't care about how it makes you feel, we really don't. all we care about when seeing that crap is how good you look. and believe me, the moment that we are "done" we are done with you as well.
It does not empower you in any way, it mearly makes you an object that we can watch, touch, and feel for our pleasure. If you happen to get something out of it too, cool, but honestly for the most part when a guy is watching this kind of crap, he really doesn't care.
now I am not saying that this is not something that a couple could do together, sure there are plenty of people out there that are like that. What I am saying is this, if you are dancing on a pole, f#@$ing on a camera, or using your nudity to save the world IN A VIDEO GAME, you are not being taken seriously; and no man really cares about you. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Think about it. It's a means to an end. sure some guy may say, 'oh baby, it makes you look so strong, i can feel your power'. that's code for I want in your pants, and will say anything I have to to get there; but even if I can't get in there, you have already shown me enough, so hey at least I have something to think about. It's nothing more then that. Don't kid yourself.
Oh, and for all the 'men' that may disagree with me, don't bring the rest of us down into the gutter you call your lives. you are the reason that we are still thought of as sex obsessed idiots that will do anything for a little taste. Learn how to actually appreciate a women, learn how to respect one, and then maybe then, you will find a wife/girlfriend, who will do all that stuff you like to watch others doing with you. reality is MUCH BETTER then fantasy, trust me.
I for one AM A MAN. And as such, I can say that this kind of crap is degrading. I mean seriously. At no point is this giving power back. Going and having sex on camera, or in this case being a scantly clad video game heroin that has to get practically nude to have any power, is not something that should feel liberating or empowering. I mean if you get off on people watching you, okay. or if you need the constant vindication that someone out there cares for you, then maybe this is your thing. But let me tell you, from a guys perspective, we could give a rats ass about how this makes you feel. We don't care about how it makes you feel, we really don't. all we care about when seeing that crap is how good you look. and believe me, the moment that we are "done" we are done with you as well.
It does not empower you in any way, it mearly makes you an object that we can watch, touch, and feel for our pleasure. If you happen to get something out of it too, cool, but honestly for the most part when a guy is watching this kind of crap, he really doesn't care.
now I am not saying that this is not something that a couple could do together, sure there are plenty of people out there that are like that. What I am saying is this, if you are dancing on a pole, f#@$ing on a camera, or using your nudity to save the world IN A VIDEO GAME, you are not being taken seriously; and no man really cares about you. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Think about it. It's a means to an end. sure some guy may say, 'oh baby, it makes you look so strong, i can feel your power'. that's code for I want in your pants, and will say anything I have to to get there; but even if I can't get in there, you have already shown me enough, so hey at least I have something to think about. It's nothing more then that. Don't kid yourself.
Oh, and for all the 'men' that may disagree with me, don't bring the rest of us down into the gutter you call your lives. you are the reason that we are still thought of as sex obsessed idiots that will do anything for a little taste. Learn how to actually appreciate a women, learn how to respect one, and then maybe then, you will find a wife/girlfriend, who will do all that stuff you like to watch others doing with you. reality is MUCH BETTER then fantasy, trust me.
If the gameplay was as good as Bayonetta's? **** yeah I would.BransonHuggins said:
As for my thoughts on the rest, I've already discussed them at length [link=http://www.ign.com/blogs/kiera2/2010/12/31/on-bayonetta/]over here[/link] and I'm too lazy to rehash them right now. I'll just copypasta one paragraph:
If a woman chooses to flaunt her sexuality for her own enjoyment, she's making an empowered choice, regardless of whether or not men like to watch her do it. If women are to be truly free of gender roles they should be free to do anything they like - including being lawyers, housewives or strippers. I'm sick of being told that when I wear a miniskirt or even makeup I'm subjugating myself to some metaphysical force of masculinity, regardless of why I choose to wear it. I'm proud to identify as a sex-positive feminist.
On topic: As a game, Bayonetta is fantastic and anyone who has slight penchant for stylish action game should enjoy it. I can understand if anyone may dislike this game because of the flamboyant and exhibitionist nature of its protagonist. But it is pity if you hate such a great game just because you can't stand the character you play as.
That depends entirely on the other aspects of the game. As the poster above mentioned if the gameplay and other elements make up for such abomination of a protagonist, then why not? Though it would definitely gonna leave a bitter taste in the mind.
I read your article on Bayonetta and just like most articles written, in defense of Bayo's character design and how she is an embodiment of female empowerment, it is full of subjective statements backed up by flawed rationales. I would have written a lengthy reply to your article, but knowing how much adamant people in forums can be regarding their opinions, I considered it a waste of time and energy.
The [link=http://www.ign.com/blogs/meghan-ign/2010/12/30/bayonetta-post-feminist-heroine-or-objectified-floozy/#disqus_thread]article[/link], written by meghan-ign, pretty much sums up the thoughts of other people, who doesn't consider Bayo's character as the best thing to happen to gaming since Lara Croft, with its precise and coherent reasoning, supporting by appropriate examples. The fact that another woman feels that way about Bayonetta's character design and her expression of sexuality ( read: cheap marketing ploy by developers) just speaks volumes about how much wrong is with Bayo's character design.
BransonHuggins said:
That depends entirely on the other aspects of the game. As the poster above mentioned if the gameplay and other elements make up for such abomination of a protagonist, then why not? Though it would definitely gonna leave a bitter taste in the mind.
kiera2 said:
I read your article on Bayonetta and just like most articles written, in defense of Bayo's character design and how she is an embodiment of female empowerment, it is full of subjective statements backed up by flawed rationales. I would have written a lengthy reply to your article, but knowing how much adamant people in forums can be regarding their opinions, I considered it a waste of time and energy.
The [link=http://www.ign.com/blogs/meghan-ign/2010/12/30/bayonetta-post-feminist-heroine-or-objectified-floozy/#disqus_thread]article[/link], written by meghan-ign, pretty much sums up the thoughts of other people, who doesn't consider Bayo's character as the best thing to happen to gaming since Lara Croft, with its precise and coherent reasoning, supporting by appropriate examples. The fact that another woman feels that way about Bayonetta's character design and her expression of sexuality ( read: cheap marketing ploy by developers) just speaks volumes about how much wrong is with Bayo's character design.
AzureHaze said:
I call BS. I don't have a problem with people looking at bayonetta as nothing more than eye candy, but you can't just say 'Your argument sucks, and here is a real argument." without really supporting why. I'm especially baffled by the statement I bolded. Why? Kiera is a woman who finds her empowering, and she is one of several. You think that an empowering woman has to be universally accepted as empowering and if one person disagrees, then she's not?
As for the article you linked, while it's mostly on stop, it's untrue that Bayonetta doesn't have an internal conflict. She was uncomfortable with not knowing her past. She was also very inconsiderate towards others, not caring if she flooded a town with magma just to pick a fight, but later on, she grows to care about cereza and Luka and Jeanne. You have character flaws and development. It's minor and it's not very good, but the writer of that article it does show that aspects beyond her body were considered. Also, I disagree with the notion that a woman needs to be oppressed to be empowering, sexually or otherwise.
So whose argument is based on flawed rationales again?
Jesus Christ. I have no idea how I missed this the first time around. Here is an important fact that seems to have gone way, way over your head:BransonHuggins said:
Female empowerment is not about men.
That is, in fact the whole point of female empowerment: that a woman's self-worth is not defined by the opinions of men. The idea that a woman's feelings about herself are irrelevant when compared to what men think about her is the opposite of empowerment. What you're talking about is pressuring women to repress their own feelings and desires in accordance with what men think is appropriate behaviour - exactly the sort of subjugation that feminism has been fighting for decades.
Saying that a woman should act only in ways that men approve of is no better than saying a woman should dress only in ways that men find attractive.
Beats me...its probably my favorite game this gen next to Oblivion (soon to be Skyrim).
I mean I hate the stupid subject matter and the stripper theme in the game...but the combat is so good it doesnt matter.
I mean I hate the stupid subject matter and the stripper theme in the game...but the combat is so good it doesnt matter.
After waiting 2-3 days since submitting my post, I didn’t think anyone was going to reply to my post on this near-dead board. So swordslayer2278, if you were expecting my reply, I am truly so for being so late. Anyways, without further ado, here my reply to you:
I clearly explained in my post why I didn’t post a lengthy argument to Kiera’s article. Instead, I posted link to an article which serves two purposes:
1. Shows another woman’s viewpoint on Bayonetta and her feminism.
2. Represents my thought on this matter (and effectively serves as my reply to her).
It baffles me how you missed such an easy connection. Please put more effort in comprehending others’ posts before throwing some false allegations at them.
I never attacked or at least intended to attack Kiera’s personal opinion. I have no problem if she wants to worship Bayonetta as a personal role-model. However, her article gives strong impressions that she is suggesting Bayonetta is the icon of feminism for women in general. That’s where I disagreed. Since the concept of feminism encompasses all women in general, some degree of universal acceptability is required to justify such a claim. That is why I posted a link to an article that shows another woman (and more if you count the ones, in comment section, who agreed with her) totally disagrees with the idea that Bayonetta is an embodiment of feminism. When someone makes such a claim that involves an universal concept such as feminism,one must, imho, also provide proof of universal acceptance to back up the claim.
This is pretty much what the author of that article is trying to point out. These story details that you mentioned seem uneventful and ultimately forgettable. Bayonetta’s character development is effectively buried by her fabulous ass-kicking and shameless self-exhibition. It is ironic that some Bayo fans try so hard to establish Bayonetta as some sort of modern female role-model while her developers actually put more effort on displaying her cheap sex appeal rather than developing her character.
You misunderstood the author. What she was trying to say in that article is that Bayonetta’s display of “empowerment” hardly serves any purpose due to lack of opposing force. It is sort of like how light has little value in a world devoid of darkness. I hope it is now clear to you whose argument is based on flawed rationales.
swordslayer2278 said:
I clearly explained in my post why I didn’t post a lengthy argument to Kiera’s article. Instead, I posted link to an article which serves two purposes:
1. Shows another woman’s viewpoint on Bayonetta and her feminism.
2. Represents my thought on this matter (and effectively serves as my reply to her).
It baffles me how you missed such an easy connection. Please put more effort in comprehending others’ posts before throwing some false allegations at them.
swordslayer2278 said:
I never attacked or at least intended to attack Kiera’s personal opinion. I have no problem if she wants to worship Bayonetta as a personal role-model. However, her article gives strong impressions that she is suggesting Bayonetta is the icon of feminism for women in general. That’s where I disagreed. Since the concept of feminism encompasses all women in general, some degree of universal acceptability is required to justify such a claim. That is why I posted a link to an article that shows another woman (and more if you count the ones, in comment section, who agreed with her) totally disagrees with the idea that Bayonetta is an embodiment of feminism. When someone makes such a claim that involves an universal concept such as feminism,one must, imho, also provide proof of universal acceptance to back up the claim.
swordslayer2278 said:
This is pretty much what the author of that article is trying to point out. These story details that you mentioned seem uneventful and ultimately forgettable. Bayonetta’s character development is effectively buried by her fabulous ass-kicking and shameless self-exhibition. It is ironic that some Bayo fans try so hard to establish Bayonetta as some sort of modern female role-model while her developers actually put more effort on displaying her cheap sex appeal rather than developing her character.
swordslayer2278 said:
You misunderstood the author. What she was trying to say in that article is that Bayonetta’s display of “empowerment” hardly serves any purpose due to lack of opposing force. It is sort of like how light has little value in a world devoid of darkness. I hope it is now clear to you whose argument is based on flawed rationales.
My view is exactly what I said it was: that Bayonetta is an empowered female character. She doesn't have to be universally liked by all women for that to be true. She just has to have agency and make her own choices about her own life and who she is. Sure, she's no Sarah Connor. But she's still exactly who she wants to be, for her own reasons, and that makes her an empowered female character.
I don't understand how a lack of opposition precludes a woman from being empowered. I spent all 13 years of my primary and secondary education at a single-sex school where I encountered absolutely zero sex-based discrimination. Nobody ever so much as hinted or implied that there might be something unusual about my love of mathematics and the natural sciences. When I chose to pursue a career as a scientist, everyone in my life encouraged and supported me - I didn't encounter a single scrap of opposition to the idea. Does that mean that my choice wasn't an empowered one? Did I not qualify as an empowered woman until I first encountered and overcame actual sexism?
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Just played some DMC and found in it so much of what was lacking in Bayonetta. I'd tell the OP to download the DMC demo, take away the weapon balancing, story, and difficulty, and he'd end up with Bayonetta.
Why in the fuck did you bump a thread nearly a year after the last post? And with a retarded post at that?
this is something they could easily expand on for a third game.
a lot of people just don't dig on Jappy Hacky Slashy games. me personally, they're some of my all time favorite type of games.
Paladinrja
Super Star
Because the second one wasn't on their preferred system and they got resistance to the idea that it should be from everyone around the issue including the PG.