HotDoommaN

No Longer a Noob
Sep 14, 2004
865
966
Canada
Fuck I don’t feel that way at all. I think that’s cynical.

I won’t go back down the hill from DD 2. You’re all full of shit. All anyone does anymore is complain. If you’re not complaining you’re not being critical enough.

Gen Z and younger millennials are the most cynical humans to ever live. Everything sucks and … it’s all been to feed them this shit.

Even the beloved Helldivers takes shit now for …. Nothing. It’s bullshit. YouTube and TikTok are grievance programming; nostalgia is poison and gen X fucking worships nostalgia. Oh god, the 90’s! Bullshit. It’s all bullshit.

Say “nostalgia is the death of hope” and people get mad. No! It’s a good thing! Then they literslly hopelessly lament how “gaming isn’t what it was” while totally lying to themselves.

I gamed in the 90’s and 2000’s and the idea that we always got “complete” games is a total fantasy and you all know it. That’s just one example of a completely false narrative. It was never like that.

Two of favorite MP shooters of that era were killed because they were broken and never fixed. Well, wolfenstein got fixed on PC. Not the console version which shipped with a game killing bug. SOCOM was unplayable after a month. Eveyone knew how to get below the map and cheat on every map. Never fixed.

And this is all…. Mainly our fault. We can blame gen X for all the bullshit and negativity. Older millennials too.
Just simply because we don't all agree with you doesn't mean we are cynical.

Isn't the "PS5 as a "Super PS4 Pro" rather than a next-gen machine." quote not true in some way or another? Tell me what is so ground breaking about PS5 or Xbox X? Fast loading screens? Yes, awesome, thats one. What about anything else? You get choices now, either run your game on Quality and get 4k resolution but 30FPS, or run it performance to get 60 fps but with horrible dynamic scaling. What I was expecting from this generation of console was RT and 60 FPS and they haven't delivered.
Do I have a PS5? Yes. Do I enjoy it? Absolutely! Yet I'm considered cynical because I have the technical expertise to judge something for what it is. There are plenty of beautiful PS5 games that talk more about the game developer's artistry than the hardware. In this generation, software is leading the charge and hardware is catching up. This is nothing new though, in some way or the other that's how advancement worked in computer science since the beginning.

Nobody said you need to abandon your idea about DD2. It's a great game. Nothing technically spectacular even though you insist its lighting is ground breaking...which is truly not. It's just a good implementation like many other games have done before it.

90's and 2000 games had more complete experience and weren't bogged down by paid DLC's and microtransactions. This is what most people are complaining about. Marketing has moved though, for the better? The product has been diluted.
Also, I'm not talking about all the games on the market. There are many developers who are offering complete experience like BD3, TLOU, God Of War etc etc etc. And they get the credit they deserve.

As for the nostalgia part, it is really not the death of gaming. I'm a millennial and I just learned to be more critical and judge things instead of just eating them up as served. That goes for everything in life though. Don't compare millennial youtubers and tiktokers to the regular millennials, they have to raise their followers anyway possible. I will agree that there are people who the only thing they like to do is judge and not enjoy, which is sad.

Also, when you combine nostalgia with some new fresh ideas, they can come up with some crazy games.
 

SageLeaf

Almost Not a Noob
Nov 15, 2023
613
608
Sometimes I click a DL post just to remind myself why he’s on ignore… and then I am reminded. Troopa posts a totally rational post, and then, that.
 

-Troopa-

No Longer a Noob
Jul 7, 2019
8,084
9,100
Is there anything that DD 2 does that couldn’t have been done on the PS4 Pro, albeit with lesser graphics and slower loading times?

Most of Sony’s biggest games so far have been cross-gen.

The new CPUs don’t seem to be used much (at least yet) for AI. The video games that are considered to have the best AI, such as FEAR, The Last of Us, Metal Gear V and others are from previous generations.

I mention this because I often heard that better CPUs will be used to improve enemy AI and I’m not seeing it yet. But maybe it is used in some ways, like in Helldivers II with the large number of enemies moving independently?

I don’t see these statements as cynical or negative.

I haven’t played it yet but Hellblade II sounds like a game that’s making good use of the current gen. The graphics sound like they help immerse the player to a greater degree than would have been possible on previous consoles. Sony’s PSVR2, which is also being made available for PC use, also needed the stronger raw power of PS5.
 
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-Troopa-

No Longer a Noob
Jul 7, 2019
8,084
9,100
The most “next gen” thing I’ve experienced in the past few years is the Apple Vision Pro demo with their “spatial computing”.

That’s the last time I can remember feeling a sense of awe by tech since maybe the N64 blew my mind with 3D Mario. Well, the Microsoft HoloLens gave me a taste of it too.

They were able to drop me next to a lake. I could look up, down, all around, behind me… it was like I was teleported to another location. It had visual depth to it, as if I was there and not just looking at a high quality picture on a screen. It reminded me of my vacations to the lakes in Banff national park.

It felt like one step closer to the Holodeck. Even if it’s nowhere near profitable yet, I hope Apple takes all that money they have and continues to work on it.
 

DeadLazy

Prime Member
May 17, 2012
23,630
6,066
The most “next gen” thing I’ve experienced in the past few years is the Apple Vision Pro demo with their “spatial computing”.

That’s the last time I can remember feeling a sense of awe by tech since maybe the N64 blew my mind with 3D Mario. Well, the Microsoft HoloLens gave me a taste of it too.

They were able to drop me next to a lake. I could look up, down, all around, behind me… it was like I was teleported to another location. It had visual depth to it, as if I was there and not just looking at a high quality picture on a screen. It reminded me of my vacations to the lakes in Banff national park.

It felt like one step closer to the Holodeck. Even if it’s nowhere near profitable yet, I hope Apple takes all that money they have and continues to work on it.
Without physical sensations to go along with it, I don’t think I’ll like it. An actual holodeck would be where it’s at. I think it’ll make me blow chunks.

With this as the definition, some entirely new experience, we are in new waters I think. Our expectations and views are all fucked up and with that as our definition, and maybe it is, modern consoles aren’t even the right product. Fundamentally. Maybe they aren’t. I think we are at the end and they’re ready to evolve into something else.

If that’s the case, we have two different types of gaming. One side, Cyberpunk and Pong are in one group. On the other side will be VR. Anything with a flat screen and a controller is… classic?
 

DeadLazy

Prime Member
May 17, 2012
23,630
6,066
Just simply because we don't all agree with you doesn't mean we are cynical.

Isn't the "PS5 as a "Super PS4 Pro" rather than a next-gen machine." quote not true in some way or another? Tell me what is so ground breaking about PS5 or Xbox X? Fast loading screens? Yes, awesome, thats one. What about anything else? You get choices now, either run your game on Quality and get 4k resolution but 30FPS, or run it performance to get 60 fps but with horrible dynamic scaling. What I was expecting from this generation of console was RT and 60 FPS and they haven't delivered.
Do I have a PS5? Yes. Do I enjoy it? Absolutely! Yet I'm considered cynical because I have the technical expertise to judge something for what it is. There are plenty of beautiful PS5 games that talk more about the game developer's artistry than the hardware. In this generation, software is leading the charge and hardware is catching up. This is nothing new though, in some way or the other that's how advancement worked in computer science since the beginning.

Nobody said you need to abandon your idea about DD2. It's a great game. Nothing technically spectacular even though you insist its lighting is ground breaking...which is truly not. It's just a good implementation like many other games have done before it.

90's and 2000 games had more complete experience and weren't bogged down by paid DLC's and microtransactions. This is what most people are complaining about. Marketing has moved though, for the better? The product has been diluted.
Also, I'm not talking about all the games on the market. There are many developers who are offering complete experience like BD3, TLOU, God Of War etc etc etc. And they get the credit they deserve.

As for the nostalgia part, it is really not the death of gaming. I'm a millennial and I just learned to be more critical and judge things instead of just eating them up as served. That goes for everything in life though. Don't compare millennial youtubers and tiktokers to the regular millennials, they have to raise their followers anyway possible. I will agree that there are people who the only thing they like to do is judge and not enjoy, which is sad.

Also, when you combine nostalgia with some new fresh ideas, they can come up with some crazy games.
Bullshit they haven’t delivered and 60fps and RT are incremental.

Lighting has made a huge difference to how games appear to me. I never said nostalgia was the death of gaming, I quoted “nostalgia is the death of hope”. I’m precisely saying gaming is not being killed. Shit. If you’re not catching that.

Nostalgia is killing your perception, not gaming. Gaming is what it is and I buy complete experiences all the time.

It’s bullshit. You’re, we are all, swamped in insanely long, fully complete, too long to fucking play them all, games.

I’m saying you’re all literally insane. Because I don’t think the facts on the ground match the rhetoric at all. I remember 90’s gaming and flipping my PS upside down to play one of a few dozen CD’s. The ones that worked.

Didn’t buy Like a Dragon because of the BS. Waited a few months got all I could want for 63$. Oh god, on day one I couldn’t get it all now now now! The horror!

One of my all time favorite RPG and probably games. Gen doesn’t suck any more or less than any other. But you missed my point. Nostalgia has made people blind with cynicism “it won’t get better” or “it was better” you know …. The death of hope kinda. Fucking holy shit.

At least read.
 
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Andyster

No Longer a Noob
Oct 12, 2014
6,543
4,055
Oh this thread reminded me that I should check out how well Xcloud streaming works on Steamdeck now that I moved from cable to Fiber. Our interenet is supposed to be like 6 times faster now.
 

robnyc24

Prime Member
Jun 3, 2010
1,842
1,755
IMO, gaming is the best it has ever been, and I'm also disappointed with the current generation so far.

Both can be true!
I can definitely agree with this statement. That this current era can be viewed as both one of the best periods and one most disappointing gens in gaming.

Hardware seems be capable for longer periods of time in comparison to generations past, and there doesn't seem to be any area where hardware seems weak and is holding thing back, even the initial release models of this generation of consoles - if anything with the gen, four years in they have yet to tap their potential.
In fact, on the console side, there are still plenty of people satisfied with their old PS4 Pro / Xbox One X hardware from last gen, even with releases for the current year - I'm one of them. I believe on a recent Digital Foundry episode they said that something like 50% of all current PlayStation users are on PS4 level hardware.
On the PC side of things, graphics cards and laptops seem to be quite capable years after their release, even on the newest releases that are graphical showcases. As long as one doesn't push 4K and max ray-tracing, it seems like a four-to-five-year-old mid-range GPU is fine.
The GTX 1650 from over 5 years ago is still the second most popular graphics card according to most recent Steam Hardware survey, with only the RTX 3060 being more popular.
I saw a benchmark video the other day, and supposedly the almost 3-year-old Lenovo Legion Pro laptop model I have, which didn't cost me that much three years ago, is capable of running Hellblade II at high settings in 1440p with DLSS at a respectably stable 45fps average, and above 30 fps minimum - good enough for me!....and that's the powerhouse visual showcase so far this year. 10 and 20 years ago, a three year old laptop or graphics card wouldn't cut it on the latest graphical showpeice at the time, even on medium settings - so that's a boon.
At the same time, this year's hardware - both PC and Console - remains disappointingly and stubbornly high.

On the plus side, there has been plethora of interesting games released in recent years, particularly last year, and if one looks hard enough, there is most likely something for everyone: from the vintage gamer looking to relive the feeling of the good old days in retro-style releases and boomer shooters, to the die-hard old-school western RPG fan, to the old school JRPG fan, to the graphics benchmark enthusiast, to the person who prefers games-as-art and slow-burn atmospheric walking sims and narrative peices.

Just the other day, a game called Mixtape from publisher Annapurna Interactive was announced, which looks appealing to me with it's easy going early 90's throwback atmosphere. So, like I said, there seems to be something for everyone - in some way - if one goes searching, so that can be seen as a boon.
At the same time, four years in we really haven't seen a big tent-poll game that enters into gaming discussion for the long term, breaks out into pop culture and clearly can be seen as a title that helped define a gen, such as what Super Mario 64, MGS, Ocarina of Time, Halo, GTA III / Vice City, Gears, Uncharted 2, and Breath of the Wild were the far into their respective gens past.....and in that aspect there is a void.

At the same time, that seems to be going on in all entertainment. Maybe things are so fragmented now and everyone is in their own entertainment silo that there isn't that specific group of big things that define the generational landscape.

In movies, aside from Barbenheimer, Top Gun, and No Way Home there really hasn't been much else that movie goers have gravited around half-way into this decade, and especially this year, the way they did around The Avengers films, Harry Potter, The Dark Knight, Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man, Titanic, Independence Day, Jurassic Park, Back to the Future, Indiana Jones, E.T., and Star Wars of decades past.
In terms of TV, there are plenty of shows of difference genres available on a bunch of streaming services, but there hasn't been a watercooler level show, at least not one that had a long presence in the cultural mindset, since Game of Thrones - which ended 5 years ago.

So, maybe it's just the entertainment landscape in general.


Isn't the "PS5 as a "Super PS4 Pro" rather than a next-gen machine." quote not true in some way or another?
That's how I've come to look at the current generation of consoles.

I plan to possibly pickup an Xbox Series X in the next 12 months, and aside from something like Hellblade II (which I may play on PC), it'll basically serve as my machine to get better performance of Xbox One games I missed or want to revisit.....or, as you mentioned, a "Super Xbox One X" in my mind rather than a clear breakaway machine.
 
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Andyster

No Longer a Noob
Oct 12, 2014
6,543
4,055
I feel like I have a hard time looking at Metacritic‘s top games of 2020-2024 on PS5 compared to the 16-20 period on ps4 or 07-10 on xbox360 of 01-04 on ps2.

Like subjectively I just dislike a lot of the style which has gotten popular so obviously but like the numbers are lower. Maybe I’m just rationalizing my own disinterest but it doesn’t feel fair minded to trade from a medium number of AAA to a few of them and getting a lot of indies
 

DevilDancer

Not the boss
Sep 27, 2001
49,455
22,621
North America
I feel like I have a hard time looking at Metacritic‘s top games of 2020-2024 on PS5 compared to the 16-20 period on ps4 or 07-10 on xbox360 of 01-04 on ps2.

Like subjectively I just dislike a lot of the style which has gotten popular so obviously but like the numbers are lower. Maybe I’m just rationalizing my own disinterest but it doesn’t feel fair minded to trade from a medium number of AAA to a few of them and getting a lot of indies
This got me curious so I looked it up.

First of all, Metacritic on mobile is a disaster. Maybe it's better with ad block but yuck.

Second, half of the top 20 from 20-24 is remakes and rereleases. So that's kind of sad. But the remaining games are pretty good.
 

Andyster

No Longer a Noob
Oct 12, 2014
6,543
4,055
This got me curious so I looked it up.

First of all, Metacritic on mobile is a disaster. Maybe it's better with ad block but yuck.

Second, half of the top 20 from 20-24 is remakes and rereleases. So that's kind of sad. But the remaining games are pretty good.
I don’t promclaim this period to be a garbage fire. It’s significantly better several interludes in gaming. To me the worst era was the beginning of last generation when games were coming out extremely unfixably broken to the point it felt like most of the time.

It seems to me to involve a lot of very good games, but comparably few hyperbolically beloved games (seems to me just BG3 and Elden Ring meet this characterization) . Which to me is the mark of a great gaming era is a lot of hyperventilating, even when I genuinely don’t get the appeal of some of them.
 

robnyc24

Prime Member
Jun 3, 2010
1,842
1,755
Second, half of the top 20 from 20-24 is remakes and re-releases. So that's kind of sad. But the remaining games are pretty good.

I think this goes along with what I was saying how maybe it's not just games, maybe it's just the landscape of entertainment in general, including movies and TV.

You mentioned that half of the Top 20 from 2020 - 2024 is remakes and re-releases. I'd also like to add there are half as many original IPs in comparison to 2015-2019 (which itself was even less than 2007-10/13 and 2001-2004/05).

But getting back to my point, this sorta mirrors movies.
Here is the Top Grossing Films for the Decade of 1980s....of which 13 of the Top 20 (by my count) are original IPs. (ie....not a sequel or part of an existing franchise)
The list of Top Grossing Films for the Decade of the 1990s....of which 15 of the Top 20 are essentially original entries (in movie form).
We get to the Top Grossing Films for the Decade of the 2000s...this is where things start to dwindle dramatically, with only 3 being original entries that are non-sequels and as of yet franchise entries (the first Pirates film counts)
We get to the Top Grossing Films of the entire Decade of the 2010s, and there is only one non-sequel or non-franchise film in the Top 20 (Frozen). In fact, of the entire Top 50, it looks like there is 5 or less original IPs....it's also where remakes (specifically the Disney live action ones) start making the list.
At least so far in the 2020s there is Barbie (it counts) and Oppenheimer, still, the rest is mostly the same old franchises.

I also think of the games that I've considered "true next gen" for their game-play features, rather than their graphics. A good example is Portal, it felt like a clear 7th Gen release in terms of gameplay and presentation, even if it's graphics weren't much more advanced in comparison to HL2 from 2004 in the 6th gen.

Like I said, it could be said it's not just games, but the entire entertainment industry playing it safe, with franchise sequels that don't rock the boat and remakes, and therefore there could be a sense that there isn't much progression as before or a clear breakaway that defines this decade in entertainment in comparison to periods in the past.

To me the worst era was the beginning of last generation when games were coming out extremely unfixably broken to the point it felt like most of the time.

I will definitely agree with this. To me the worst era in gaming was, as you said, the beginning of last gen, specifically it's first full year with the year 2014....worst year in gaming ever. Not only did all these hyped games appear broken and disappointing upon release, but gaming culture's image was also in the toilet like never before...and since.
 
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DeadLazy

Prime Member
May 17, 2012
23,630
6,066
I don’t promclaim this period to be a garbage fire. It’s significantly better several interludes in gaming. To me the worst era was the beginning of last generation when games were coming out extremely unfixably broken to the point it felt like most of the time.

It seems to me to involve a lot of very good games, but comparably few hyperbolically beloved games (seems to me just BG3 and Elden Ring meet this characterization) . Which to me is the mark of a great gaming era is a lot of hyperventilating, even when I genuinely don’t get the appeal of some of them.
This is BS. The most popular does not mean anything other than that.

Neither BG 3 or Elden Ring will age well.

We don’t spend time with games like we used to. Too many games, too much media. This is a perception problem not a gaming problem.
 

DeadLazy

Prime Member
May 17, 2012
23,630
6,066
And… the best selling game of last was and is ignored by the game media because of fantasy politics. Nuff said.

So this is all bullshit. It’s all bullshit and news only gets rage clicks. Hogwarts is a great fucking game.

We turn on our consoles and get adds for new games so no, we will never get attached to characters and games like we used to because we are never alone with them the way we used to be.

Perception problems.
 

-Troopa-

No Longer a Noob
Jul 7, 2019
8,084
9,100
We turn on our consoles and get adds for new games so no, we will never get attached to characters and games like we used to because we are never alone with them the way we used to be.
You're starting to sound like me, and you disagreed with me back then. Watch out!

Old people (including us) go on about how some things were better back in the day. Sometimes it’s just nostalgia, but sometimes it’s also true.

When old people talk about how they used to meet their friends at the local diner and have a milkshake, that sounds like a legit better experience than going to McDonald’s. When a fun experience gets modernized/commercialized too much, it loses some of its soul.
Ads being plastered everywhere does suck. I totally agree with you. It's a distraction.

And what I hate most in modern society -- in terms of distractions -- is smartphones. With all their notifications and algorithms. Created a new type of addict. You have to be intentional and self-aware to not fall into its traps.


My nephew has been scored on so many times in Rocket League because his phone pinged during a match and he had to check it. Kinda funny, except when you're his teammate... 😭

/mini-rant
 
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Andyster

No Longer a Noob
Oct 12, 2014
6,543
4,055
We turn on our consoles and get adds for new games so no, we will never get attached to characters and games like we used to because we are never alone with them the way we used to be.

Perception problems.
I feel like this is literally the opposite of my experience where the saving grace of games has been a handful of 100-1,000 hour games worth wholly ringing every last drop of marrow out of them, and the Achilles heel has been the downfall of the there are 6 games out I want to speed run the story in the next two months feeling every September.
 

DevilDancer

Not the boss
Sep 27, 2001
49,455
22,621
North America
The biggest thing that's changed for me is the hype cycle. I used to get wrapped up in games in development, but the last few years my favorite games haven't been on my radar before release.

That's a function of the proliferation of developers. There are so many out there, you can't know about most of the games being built. So we get surprised by things like Helldivers 2 and Balatro and for me, a little farther back, Valheim.

So yeah i'm tracking Perfect Dark and GTA VI, but there's a good chance I either haven't heard of my 2025 GOTY, or I'm not currently interested in it.

That's good and bad. I enjoyed the hype cycle, even if it led to some bad investments. But being surprised by a new game now is a lot of fun, too.