** Interloper War S3 Discussion Thread

[IgneousIndigen]

I'm not criticizing or anything, but how do you even pronounce that? XD

This question will be addressed in the forthcoming pronunciation guide.

 

[DrEvilGenius]

1) We don't need a pronunciation guide. We need realistic and believable names.

2) It was cute at first, but your continual addition of random events to the LARGER gameworld have gone too far. While it's easy to incorporate something like the Kasuto Rebellion, we do usually ask for a manner of cooperation and collaboration on things, especially in light of the fact that YOUR additions are being collectivized into the larger narrative (with the Rebellion), but the larger narrative is being essentially ignored and disregarded in your own little story. Also "the great Inn Convention in the year 4"? The fuck is that? (Among other useless references that don't make sense.

(The take away from Number 2 is: We're cooperating and taking your additions into our stories. Why aren't you do the same?)

3) The complete lack of interest to be involved with everyone else is too much. The wiki exists to be used. You've posted things on IGN, it's out there man. You don't own shit once it hits the boards. It belongs to Ziff Davis (the IGN parent company). So, we'll be putting your posts on the wiki, for the sake of narrative coherency in the story on that site. If you don't want any more of your writing on the Wiki, then you should probably just quit the RPG. Also, if you don't want to start actually interacting with other players in a respectful and collaborative manner (IE - If you don't want to tell your story WITH and AMONG other stories, and want to continue remaining on the outskirts and sidelines as you are), then you should probably just quit the RPG.


There is nothing wrong with telling a 'side-story'. But it can't be totally devoid of contact from the rest of the RP. This isn't about your writing (Well, it partially is, because those names are fucking terrible, dude), it's about your attitude (you need to be willing to cooperate and collaborate, if you're trying to tell your own stand-alone story with no collaboration or interaction, write fan-fiction. We don't want you here if that's the case).

I'll point you back to some of the rules posted when the RPG started (emphasis for the purpose of this post):

"Firstly, I just want to make this clear. The RPG is not about who is the strongest, or who can beat more opponents into a bloody pulp. It's not going to be totally about fighting. It's about having fun, and interacting. We're all telling a story together. [...] Make friends and enemies with other characters, that's what keeps the game interesting. [...] Cooperation is the name of the game, even if your characters are competing.

I'd hope this doesn't need to be said, but don't mess around. [...] Remember: Cooperate!"

Try taking that to heart, or leave. If you're not going to be part of the group, the group neither needs nor wants you.

 

[IgneousIndigen]

I will happily accept an apology for that temper tantrum.

I am still having a great deal of fun, of course. Any and all are welcome to continue engaging in the exciting events transpiring in Gilba Gilba; if not, feel free to exclude them from your scenes. We’re having fun, not composing a serious mythology (so I thought). I don’t need your approval or permission, and I'm only replying because you seem to really care about this; if Blom is a side-story, consider it an occasional refreshing change from the important plot, whatever that is. Also, have you heard of the Legend of Zelda? In case you haven't, Zelda games feature many side characters whose actions don't affect the main plot at all. Don't be threatened. Stories need to be entertaining, pal. They need to live and breathe and make you feel something. There is nothing interesting whatsoever about an army of terminators marching on an army of terminators. I keep my opinions of the quality of others’ writing to myself; it’s not everyone’s strength here and that’s fine. Again, we’re just having fun. You however made this personal: there’s no need to be vicious and insulting. So once you've cooled down I will gladly accept your apology without any hard feelings.

Oh also, since you insist on being petulant about this: I politely asked my posts be removed from your wiki because they were copied and pasted there without my knowledge. I post here. Not there. Please don't steal my scenes just because you think they need to be chronicled for whatever reason. That's just inconsiderate and I don’t appreciate it. Please extend me that courtesy. You’re a human being. I am thankful stache19 removed Blom from the wiki after I asked him about it via PM. IGN is enough.

I've shown neither you nor any other user the contempt you laced that post with. You don’t intimidate me. In fact you should be ashamed.

 

[stache19]

" I don’t need your approval or permission, and I'm only replying because you seem to really careabout this"

DrEvilGenius and tristandark are in running this RP. You do require their permission for elements that are deemed integral to the world. You do not have the authority to make unilateral decisions on world history.

"Also, have you heard of the Legend of Zelda? In case you haven't, Zelda games feature many side characters whose actions don't affect the main plot at all. Don't be threatened. Stories need to be entertaining, pal."

We have a unique mixture of games and story here. It plays like a game, but we don't allow characters to exist in vacuums. Even if your story is a personal one, it happens in the group world. When you establish history as part of your character development, you are establishing that history for the whole world. We aren't just allowing everyone's own backstories to co-exist WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL, because we want to control the number of inconsistencies and plotholes for the greater good.

"Please don't steal my scenes just because you think they need to be chronicled for whatever reason."

That's not theft. You are being poor spirited about this. They have been re-added to the wiki for consistency of our group world. You have no legal right to material posted on IGN. Sorry.

I keep my opinions of the quality of others’ writing to myself; it’s not everyone’s strength here and that’s fine

You write like someone with smug superiority that allows you to rise above anger because you somehow have the high ground. You think you are clever by implying that you have superior writing skill. The reality is that your story isn't that interesting, and doesn't enhance ours just by being boring. You have been uncooperative, but pretended to be playing along.

[URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/igneousindigen.5165464/']@IgneousIndigen[/URL] You are no longer welcome in this RP. Please leave. We will make sure your character is no longer used. The wiki posts are not your property and will stay up for now, although I'm personally looking for a way to remove them that won't mess up our canon.

---------------------

 

[DrEvilGenius]

As stache said, your smug uncooperative attitude is not welcome. If we offend you so much, there is no reason for you stick around. Go away. You've been removed from the RP. See, you DO require the approval and permission, not only of the GMs but the entire RP group, and we've come to the consensus that we don't want you ruining our fun. If you continue to post in the RP, you will be ignored and a forum moderator will delete your posts.

And speaking frankly, your writing is awful. It is bland and uninteresting. Obviously, your drawing skill is your strong point, not your writing ability.

Sorry things didn't work out, you had real promise at the beginning before you started acting like an ass.

 

[IgneousIndigen]

The fact that you care so much about these names and rules and imaginary "canon" for the greater good shows you care more about cataloguing data than telling a story. If that's fun and interesting for you, perhaps you would also enjoy reading a stack of police reports? I don't care if you think my scenes are boring or uninspired. I don't post that often and I'm still having a great time. Stop being a bunch of playground bullies.

The only thing that bothers me is your bizarre claim to the stuff I've written. I didn't bring up any legal issue; I just asked you to remove it because I think you're decent people. You aren't any more entitled to this content than I am and if you copy and paste it for your own ends you're being disingenuous about using IGN's forum in the first place. Thanks for understanding.

I think that about wraps it up. Thanks all for your concerns. Now let's get back to the RPG!

EDIT:
Oops I didn't see DEG had replied.
"If we offend you so much, there is no reason for you stick around."
You don't offend me at all and I never indicated I was. In fact I have no problem with how this RPG is playing out. As I've said before, I'm having a great time. As I've also said before, I don't care what you think of my writing. I know you are using that as a weapon to drive me out of town. I will leave once I am no longer entertained or having fun. Not before. Thanks.

 

[DrEvilGenius]

See, you DO require the approval and permission, not only of the GMs but the entire RP group, and we've come to the consensus that we don't want you ruining our fun. If you continue to post in the RP, you will be ignored and a forum moderator will delete your posts.

Good bye. Good riddance. I'd say it's been a pleasure but you've caused nothing but strife since before even your first post.

 

[Oni_Link87]

Are we kidding right now? We can't ban somebody because of a bad vibe. This is a subscription service message board and Igneous hasn't broken any rules--not even our vague guidelines about creative writing. There's not a single IC post of his that violates our guidelines, or an OOC post that violates IGN's rules. His characters are interacting constructively with four other PC's, he's been responsive to every post about his roleplaying in the Disc thread, and if anything we're creating a hostile environment for him as a new member. We should let Igneous keep posting and get on with the game.

 

[DrEvilGenius]

This is a subscription service message board

No it isn't. This is a free message board.

As stated - He's free to join the next RP if Ken/Nick want him. The decision of the IWS3 GMs stands.

I'm not arguing about this anymore and am moving on with life and the RP.

 

[stache19]

Are we kidding right now? We can't ban somebody because of a bad vibe. This is a subscription service message board and Igneous hasn't broken any rules--not even our vague guidelines about creative writing. There's not a single IC post of his that violates our guidelines, or an OOC post that violates IGN's rules. His characters are interacting constructively with four other PC's, he's been responsive to every post about his roleplaying in the Disc thread, and if anything we're creating a hostile environment for him as a new member. We should let Igneous keep posting and get on with the game.

Constructive interaction is definitely not what he was doing. Ample opportunity was given to play by the established rules of collaboration, and mostly all that was given was empty gestures of goodwill. Words with nothing behind them. We could argue about how to address it, but ultimately it's not subjective here when analyzing that Igneous was posting with 0 communication to other players. If he could prove to me that he's not a troll account, and actually work with us on the rules, I personally would welcome his return. But I'm not a GM, and based on the actions he's taken, I'd rather not have a player who wants nothing to do with the rest of us, but still wants to freely exist in the story.

Basically I think you're seeing this through a tinted lens because you welcomed the difference of his style. I think you'll notice the rest of us did at first too, but it just became clear that he wasn't really playing along.

 

[Oni_Link87]

I assumed because of his icon he was a subscriber, but that's irrelevant to the larger problem of permabanning a first-time contributor because of a difference in style. It's unfair to ban someone without even trying to base it on IGN's rules or the ZRPG's guidelines, and it's excessive to make that ban permanent when we've used lighter punishments in the past.

IGN's message board rules can be found here. The rules we all agreed to in the Sign-Up Thread are:

Rules
For the most part the rules are pretty simple and rather flexible. As long as you play fair with others and don't try and destroy the game you should be fine. If any disputes come up they can be resolved by having a conversation with the Game Masters (GM's), DrEvilGenius and tristandark. The GM's are the people hosting this RPG so you can ask them any question you like.

Nevertheless to avoid confusion we do have some concrete restrictions to prevent the game from falling into complete anarchy.

1. You can only play as original characters. Although pre-established Zelda characters may be in the story under GM control you can only play as characters you made up yourself. No using canon Zelda characters to play as, i.e. Link, Princess Zelda, Ganondorf, etc.

2. Your character can't be perfect or invincible. If he/she/it has a special strength, he/she/it should have an important weakness, too. This is not a competition, it is not about whose character is the biggest, the strongest, the most powerful. It is about creating a good story and having fun. You'll win some and you'll lose some, so just be reasonable and you'll be fine!

3. No Motoring Without Permission. Write only for your character(s), and minor descriptive details or dialogue lines for other characters in your party. When fighting, you can post an attack, but the effect of the attack has to be written by the opposing player, unless you have permission to write an extended scene.

4. You can NOT kill another player character (or an important NPC) without their users permission.Although people will die in the story it needs to be done with that character's author knowledge. The only people you can kill without permission would be either your own character(s) or minor NPC's (guards, random villagers, etc).

5. Don't Nuke the World. High-level sorcery is allowed if your character builds up to it gradually, including time travel, teleportation, and psychic abilities. But don't crash the moon into the world or anything else that disrupts the entire game for other players, without GM permission.

6. Keep your character confined to races that actually exist in The Legend of Zelda. That includes anything from the major races, like Zoras and Gorons, to the minor ones like Zuna or Lizalfos. No playing as elves or orcs. Characters that are a hybrid of two or more races however are allowed (but try to have a good explanation for hybrids).

7. You can only have 2 player characters and 2 companion NPC's. Please limit yourself to having two main characters to play as. You can come up with as many minor NPC's as you want, but only one major NPC's can follow a player character around at a time. No using your companion NPC's as separate player characters.

If this is trolling in the bannable sense, it's the most elaborate and creative trolling I've seen, and it's led to some of the most compelling creative writing and illustrations we've seen on this board in years. In Season 2 of this RP, Dave broke the godmode rule (#2) when he made his character Kae too powerful, and the punishment was an addition to the character's weaknesses IC with no limit on the user's posting. Here, a first-time user creates an original character, Blom Blomgrin, that at worst has some satirical elements, and without any explanation we immediately try to permaban him. We can do better. If IC weaknesses and an OOC ban are the range of punishment, then we can find a middle ground here that allows Igneous to stay in the game and continue the storylines he's already involved in.

If we're going to ban someone, it should be based on a clear violation of the rules, and it should have a limit of two weeks, 30 days, or 60 days, not just allowing them to return when the GM's change. It could be more than a year from now before IWS3 is over. Even a formal IGN ban comes with escalating time limits and a 7-day review process. The only reason we wanted Interloper War to go into multiple years was to encourage open-ended world-building without GMNPC's driving the plot, and a couple years later we're now banning someone for it. If we have to start getting every aspect of our storytelling pre-approved to make sure it doesn't conflict with the GM's headcanon, then our mythology has become a barrier to entry that's prohibitive to new users and a threat the RPG's continuity. We should lay off and let people post what they want; it's videogame fanfiction in the Zelda universe, and we're not Nintendo.

 

[Silverslate]

On the subject of rules, I'd like to point out I'm breaking rules 6 and 7 by having Lonesome Treant exist. My point being I'm doing more wrong than Iggy is; Yet, I'm not getting any heat for it.

 

[ShutUpNavi]

Oni_Link87 I think you misunderstand why IgneousIndigen was removed from the story. He wasn't kicked out because he technically broke the rules (he corrected himself the few times he did that) or because of his storytelling (we've had worse). He was removed because dosen't seem to want to be involved with the rest of the RPG (or its players) at all. Look at his comments about our characters being an "army of terminators", his telling us "The Legend of Zelda, have you heard of it?", his complaints about us "stealing his scenes" and putting them on the wiki "without his approval".

All of that shows to me that not only dose Igneous not understand that this is a collaborative, action-adventure RPG, but he seems to have an open disdain for that type of storytelling. Either way in his last post he made it clear that we can go to Gilba Gilba and be part of "his story", but he won't go out and become part of "our story". In fact he made it clear he's just going to keep ignoring whatever goes on in the rest of the RP world.

The best that could have happened from him staying is that his story would continue on in a vacuum with occasional cameo appearances from our characters. If that's the case why join the RP thread at all? You can tell your story as an independent fan-fic on IGN if you dont want your story interupted. Thats what tristandark and redawson2 did with their solo story.

Now perhaps we got Igneous wrong and he was on the verge of becoming more involved. But his unwillingness to accept any constructive criticism while at the same time giving backhanded insults to not only our characters but the entire narrative makes us not want to work with him. Also I can't confirm whats been going on behind the scenes but other people have complained that in PM's sent to Igneous that he was either passive-aggressively complaining about our narrative or at best begrudgingly accepting of it.

In short Igneous wasn't removed because he "accidentally" broke one of our rules as you were implying. He was removed because he wasn't working with us to tell a shared story and made it clear he had no intention to get involved beyond just mentioning that our characters exist. There is a big difference between not understanding how the RPG is played and not careing about how its played in regards to acknowledging the rest of the story exists.

Unless we've gotten Igneous totally wrong in these regards I can't see how keeping him would be benefital to either the story or to the RP group as a whole.

 

[Oni_Link87]

I just don't think that's a good enough reason to kick someone out. I'm in the middle of a bona fide, non-trolling storyline with Igneous's characters, and there's no fair or objective basis for cutting it short. From my perspective, he's cooperating fully IC and in PM's.

He's already foreshadowing more long-term involvement with his flashbacks to the Great Fairy and his days as a Castle Town crime boss, and in the short-term he has a mysterious chest from Sirius's lab and just discovered Taden's burglary. That's a more involved story, interconnected with the other characters, than several of the other cards have going.

If we are gonna try and have his posts deleted, then we need to agree on a clear and concise rule #8 that warns future players about what can get them booted. Without that, we run the risk of becoming an insular group of trolls ourselves who are suspicious and punitive towards new members.

We could settle on something like "Don't be a troll in the Discussion thread," but even then I'd want to have time limits on the ban that are less extreme than the full duration of the RP, especially when we're talking about a first-time contributor and a multi-year RPG.

 

[IgneousIndigen]

I just don't think that's a good enough reason to kick someone out.

I appreciate this unanticipated support from someone who understands the bigger picture. Thanks man, this is cool.

Yes dudes, get over yourselves. I am absolutely cooperating and bringing in other users' events and characters to form a larger arc; it's probably just not in the way you envisioned. I know how to tell a story and how to keep it entertaining over the long game. I know how to make interesting unique characters that others like reading about. This thread needs different styles or it runs the risk of sounding tedious and disengaged. I also am providing some kick-ass art. This is the essence of online collaborative RPGs, which I do understand quite well, thank you.

...we run the risk of becoming an insular group of trolls ourselves who are suspicious and punitive towards new members.

I can tell you, as a newcomer, this has been my exact perception, and I greeted the initial praise Blom received with deep suspicion because I knew that disingenuous reception could change quickly. Step back for a moment and reevaluate what you are hoping to achieve with this RPG. what sort of story you're trying to tell. I can tell you that I - oh and other anonymous users who PM'd me by the way - look forward to unexpected and entertaining scenes.

Anyway, here's the bottom line. I have one more Blom scene that I would like to post soon. Just one more. It's not very long and it wraps up Blom's storyline in vastly interesting ways. It features other characters and is about as interactive as you are insanely demanding it to be. If nobody likes it, I will vacate this RPG and you uptight users will get what you want. That's not too much to ask. In the future, I encourage you to loosen up. This RPG suffers from very poor leadership, as evidenced by the performance a certain GM gave up above. You should move your story off IGN's public forums and onto a private site if you want to keep it under strict control. As I mentioned in a PM to stache19 (which he graciously just responded to), it’s too bad you guys are so consumed with the rules and authority that you didn’t even see the unique opportunity in Mr Blomgrin's contributions. You could've just rolled with it. You really could have. But instead you freaked the hell out. Out of NOWHERE. I understand social psychology well enough to understand what's really going on here, but you need to get over this perceived threat Blom poses to your pet project. I had no intention of killing it, just to entertain and be entertained, and I can tell you I was doing those both quite well. YOU guys chose to get worked up. Anyway, one more scene, dudes, and ol' Blommy can go the way of the Great Fairy.

 

[stache19]

I am withdrawing temporarily for an undisclosed amount of time. Days. Weeks. I don't know. But I need to cool off and regroup mentally. I'll probably keep writing during that time, but it will be my own private thing. I've been talking with Igneous in PM a bit, here's my final reply to him so you all know my current attitude as well.

-----------------------

The biggest issue here is not some complex psychological fear, it was a perception of cooperation and differences in attitudes on just what this RP is. Your experience in other RPs has led you to have certain beliefs/stances, and those didn't fully mesh with the established rules of this universe. Does that mean some of our rules should change? Maybe, but it certainly doesn't mean every one of our expectations is wrong.

Your collaboration with others, within your own world - that's good stuff, but I think there was a perception that you had no interest in venturing out beyond your borders into the rest of the world. If you want to change things up, give some new angles, THAT would be the way to do it. Telling a story that's isolated and requires us to visit you is fine, but only when paired with other aspects of collaboration. If we as a group had managed to have this discussion earlier on, we might have never even experienced these issues, but hindsight is 20/20.

I'm posting part of this in the Disc. thread as well so others can see. I only shared your initial reply from yesterday at 2AM and my reply to you so that others could see your attitude and my 1-6 response list as I think a lack of communication was also a pretty big problem here. Everyone was comfortable talking about you, but not to you. That was a mistake that I'm regretting and upset about still.

In all honesty, I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first, but became skeptical that you really gave a crap about the rest of us. Our early misunderstandings made this harder to figure out, and then I started to believe you didn't really want us involved in your story, but were willing to do so to make us happy. But that was all an assumption on my part, perhaps one I shouldn't have made.

Final thoughts - if you're still around when I come back, cool. Otherwise, I hope we can at least part on neutral terms and move on from all the negativity.

Edit: This does mean that the wiki will not be receiving updates from me. SUN may continue to work on it, but the compilation of chapters will cease to occur.

I'll be once more removing Blom's data from the wiki per Igneous original request, and I don't know if I'll be resuming recording chapters. It was something I mostly did for myself, and I know others don't use the chapters portion of the wiki much. The reality is that I don't personally see a point in recording posts into chapters if it's anything less than 100%.

 

[IgneousIndigen]

Totally understandable. I think we are at an impasse here then.

I think there was a perception that you had no interest in venturing out beyond your borders into the rest of the world.

This is a valid concern, but given the expectation that this RPG would potentially go on for a year or more, there was plenty of time to get established in Blom's world before venturing out. I really thought that was understood. We have time to explore Blom's world a bit, guys. For example, Glen clearly discovered something in that smoking laboratory that he wants to keep to himself. He even got attacked for it. A pantry got looted, which definitely serves as a way to get a plot moving. I introduced shady NPCs (like that government inspector who was sneaking around asking questions off-screen) and encouraged other users, via PM I think, to play with that guy and have him be whatever they wanted. I liked all these things and was working them into my story arc. That's all interesting stuff. It's all collaborative. But it takes time to develop; it can't happen in a post or two. I use weird humor to make you laugh and remind you that this isn't really all that serious. This RPG should be as fun to read as it is to write.

Here's what I didn't like, and showed no interest in, which I think is what you are all reacting so strongly to and what I'm still getting a lot of heat for: one character (can't remember whose, sorry), showing up and belligerently forcing herself down Blom's throat. "I'm going to protect you all from the terror that is coming, because I am one of the terrors. Take me to this newcomer, innkeeper, if you don't cooperate I promise you won't like my methods." And some mention of a "Hated Relic." Whatever that is? Or something like that. Agggh come on. I'm sorry. I should have handled that way better but I'm just not into that. I wrote it off as best I could (kicking her loud ass out, which was of course a mistake and I apologized for that). I think I have a right to choose where to focus my scenes. Everyone showed so much interest in Blom initially I was just friggin' blindsided. I can't please you all when you're all vying for a drink in the Ragged Maiden. I had to choose what was more interesting: engage in this hothead or work out the other stuff I had going with other players.

ANYWAY, jesus, I know where I messed up - and misinterpreted everyone's expectations - so you can repeat all your criticisms if you like. I get it. But like I said, I have one more Blom scene to post that wraps all this up and then I'm out of here.

 

[stache19]

I don't need to repeat myself any further, so no worries there. I can see clearly both your thoughts on past actions and your overall attitude on the RP. I don't think anything you are saying exists outside the realm of healthy discussion.

There is one thing worth repeating - if you choose to return, and we all manage to talk like we are talking right now, things should be great.

My personal lesson I've learned: Assumptions are totally fine - but only if you're assuming that your own attitudes about another person are wrong. (otherwise the old bit about assumptions remains true, it just makes an ass of....well you know how that saying goes).

I've misjudged you Igneous, and I genuinely hope you change your mind and decide to stay/come back. I'm already reconsidering my decision to take a break thanks to our back and forth going a bit better than expected.

 

[IgneousIndigen]

Well I appreciate that. We will see how this goes. I'm a bit nervous about my next scene but I love the illustration so much it's gotta go up, and we'll deal with the fallout accordingly.

 

[stache19]

Hey all, I'm no longer leaving the RP. It's clear that I was worried about nothing earlier.

 

[Silverslate]

*reads newest post*

...Huh...I, uh...


...Hm...Not gonna lie, I laughed, but...um...

 

[ShutUpNavi]

....

 

[Silverslate]

...Alright, my silence breaks.

That's gotta be the funniest personal "screw you" I've ever seen towards anyone ever, regardless of my relationship with said people, and I applaud the amount of effort put into it. Not just the picture, but the whole post itself is parody gold...It's just the context and spirit behind it that is really unfortunate. I was hoping you were gonna prove me right and be the bigger person, Iggy. You really did bring something new among a cast of cutthroats and warlords, then you blew it.

You caved in to criticism and pulled a Phil Fish. No self respecting artist in any meaning of the word does that. I was really pulling for you and thought you were gonna turn it around.

 

[ShutUpNavi]

Silver I think we now know Igneous never had any intention of playing with us at all in the first place. His post was just liked, within the hour, by herbalcell and some other alt account with no posts. Herbalcell only has two WUL's on his userpage. Joe_Cracker and sexualburgerking, both well known board trolls. Its clear Igneous is just an alt of one of them circumventing their ban.

No worries. Now that we know who he is we can get the mods in here and be back on our merry way.

 

[IgneousIndigen]

Silver I think we now know Igneous never had any intention of playing with us at all in the first place. His post was just liked, within the hour of Igneous' last post, by herbalcell and some other alt account. Herbalcell only has two WUL's on his userpage. Joe_Cracker and sexualburgerking, both well known board trolls. Its clear Igneous is just an alt of one of them circumventing their ban.

No worries. Now that we know who he is we can get the mods in here and be back on our merry way.

This actually is entirely false. You can cry foul all you like but I think I laid out my case quite well for how I planned to work with everyone over the long haul. Go play detective somewhere else.

 

[stache19]

Silver I think we now know Igneous never had any intention of playing with us at all in the first place. His post was just liked, within the hour of Igneous' last post, by herbalcell and some other alt account. Herbalcell only has two WUL's on his userpage. Joe_Cracker and sexualburgerking, both well known board trolls. Its clear Igneous is just an alt of one of them circumventing their ban.

No worries. Now that we know who he is we can get the mods in here and be back on our merry way.

This actually is entirely false. You can cry foul all you like but I think I laid out my case quite well for how I planned to work with everyone over the long haul. Go play detective somewhere else.

Before that last post I was willing to move forward on things. You need to leave now. Obviously you knew that would be the result of doing this. You don't get to also spend time defending yourself. You did have a chance to prove that you were gonna work with us, but you threw that away.

 

[Zelda_Knight]

I've been watching this go on, and I'm finding hard to stay neutral. IgneousIndigen has very noticeably been passive-aggressive and leaving mildly insulting comments like referring to the other player characters as robots ("There is nothing interesting whatsoever about an army of terminators marching on an army of terminators.") and trying to imply that at least some of the other players in the RP are bad at writing ("I keep my opinions of the quality of others’ writing to myself; it’s not everyone’s strength here and that’s fine.").

But your newest post in the actual RPG is the straw that broke the camel's back. The shameless and unapologetic mocking alone looks childish and immature. I thought that despite the argument(s) that have been going on here, we would at least be able to keep the RPG clean of this, but I was apparently wrong. I find difficult, if not impossible for anyone to act in such a manner and still claim to be the "good guy" of the argument.

I'm sorry for being just another person who's against you Igneous, but I can't bring myself to agree with your words and actions. You claim that that all the things DEG and Stache19 say about you are untrue, but everything you have said and done has only proven them right in my eyes.

 

[stache19]

You know, you made some solid points in there, and we have had a lot of discussion about Igneous as a group, and how we could have all been better about handling our disagreements.

But there's no way to defend the deliberate trolling in the final post. You can justify and say that we reacted poorly first, but if the point is to rise above pettiness, then Igneous really messed up in that regard. He chose to be petty after finally convincing (almost) everyone to chill out and look at things through new eyes. Myself and Oni_Link87 talked and determined that it was all mostly misunderstandings and overreactions, and the details of the situation left neither Igneous nor those of us complaining in a positive light. However, we also were open to establishing better communication with Igneous, and welcomed his continue presence in the RP, putting previous comments in the past.

He screwed up by insisting on "getting back" at DEG. That just proved he's more interested in self-amusement than anything else. I'm sure some RPers would STILL welcome his return, but it's hard to see DEG or tristandark welcoming him back now.

Edit: Just to clarify, we are going to edit the rules to state that having your posts copied/pasted into the Wiki is a condition of playing. It's already a critical element of the RP for us, and it would pretty much invalidate the purpose of the wiki to only include some content.

 

[Zelda_Knight]

I will be one of the first to admit that the arguments here (and a lot of arguments on the internet in general) can easily be attributed to misunderstanding each other, since in human speech, how we say something is just as important as what we say, and that part is lost in text. I was also happy to see everyone finally calming down and meeting at a compromise.

But unfortunately, Igneous wasn't as above pettiness as he thought and/or wanted everyone to believe. I can understand if someone finds his post funny. But I don't, if only because I know the "behind-the-scenes" context of it. To me, there's no misunderstanding his words and intentions in it. Despite how much he may claim otherwise, it's clear that he was (and may still be) upset over the arguments here, because if he truly wasn't, he wouldn't have wrote that post like that, if at all. The fact that he did that just for the purpose of spiting DEG (or wrote his post in such a way where it would be hard to tell otherwise) shows that either he's a troll, or he's too immature to work in a social environment that both asks for and requires cooperation.

More evidence of his lack of cooperation may be the part where he kicked out the other two player characters and then, immediately within the same post, changed it to night time so the other two could have no time to respond to it. What he could've done is write something along the lines of "Blom got sick of the fighting and tried to kick them out." and end it at that. It would get the point across just fine and still give the others time to respond.

Yet another bit of evidence is the part where DEG and Stache19 are telling him to leave. Igneous responds, not by apologizing and/or trying to elaborate/explain things, but by instead saying "Stop bullying me, I'm not leaving until I stop having fun." I think actively defying the GM is always against the rules.

but this is how I interpret everything here.

Edit: Just to clarify, we are going to edit the rules to state that having your posts copied/pasted into the Wiki is a condition of playing. It's already a critical element of the RP for us, and it would pretty much invalidate the purpose of the wiki to only include some content.

I already thought that was an unspoken rule, but I think writing it down as an official rule is a good idea just to avoid future events like this.

 

[DrEvilGenius]

Z_K, man, you're one of my favouritest 'new users'. Keep posting!

And, other than that, I'm really quite sick of all this Igneous talk. It's over, he burned his bridge, I'm leaving it at that and moving forward with the RP so that those of who take it seriously (not that it has to have a serious feel to the content, just that we all care to be involved in a healthy manner with the story-telling and each other) can continue to have fun with it.

So, please. Let's do that and move on. All that needs to be said has been said by both sides.

And for the sake of clearing up this little non-issue:

All In-Character posts in the ZRPG will be cataloged on the ZRPG Compendium Wiki.

There. It's codified as a "rule" now. (Though honestly less of a rule and more of an info note.)

 

[IgneousIndigen]

This has been a fascinating discussion! After reflecting on this for several days, here are some thoughts I have. The accusations against me remain as groundless now as they were the first time, so I’ll keep this focused on you, [URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/drevilgenius.759837/'][URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/drevilgenius.759837/']@DrEvilGenius[/URL][/URL]. You are a bad GM. It’s too bad you missed out on the fun, but something tells me this Zelda forum is a larger force in your life than it is for perhaps everyone else, and in that respect I can understand why you take this so seriously despite claims to the contrary (more on that later). I know you don’t like my writing, DEG, so I’ll try to put it in your favorite format: pieces of data.

This RPG is not fun if you turn into a child when someone disagrees with you. You were absolutely within your rights to call me out for kicking Lynn out of the inn. I'm sorry about that. We solved that nicely though right? Yep. Both in this thread and via PM. But you went nuts afterwards. You went NUTS. Why would I want to keep posting when I have to cripple my style, wondering what off-the-cuff line might set you off again? Why would anyone? All my comments that Zelda_Knight carefully excised (out of context, surprise surprise) are direct results of YOUR abuse. I'm not going to just sit back and take it. This never would have happened if you’d kept your head on right. I would have gone on happily building the world and getting things rolling. I think everyone is forgetting that it is YOU who insulted me (a round of applause to the useless moderators who just shrugged when I pointed out this abuse). Hey by the way, remember when you said this:

• You've posted things on IGN, it's out there man. You don't own shit once it hits the boards. It belongs to Ziff Davis (the IGN parent company). So, we'll be putting your posts on the wiki, for the sake of narrative coherency in the story on that site.
• This isn't about your writing (Well, it partially is, because those names are fucking terrible, dude),
• If we offend you so much, there is no reason for you stick around. Go away.
• And speaking frankly, your writing is awful. It is bland and uninteresting.

I'm wondering if you can help me out, because earlier you posted this:

"None of us are going to drive you away, we all love having new players! Rule Number Two is "Don't be a dick." That applies to everyone, no matter how long they've been playing. It even applies to me and tristandark, the two GMs."

Oh really? It applies to you too, does it? Yeah I’m sure. It’s just so weird to me that you went out of your way to convince me how laid back and cool you were at the beginning, and then you went psychotic. Look at your earlier posts on page 1, then compare them to your bizarre ranting. It's two different people. Just apologize, dude. You broke your own rules. It needs to be very clear to everyone following along with this that those were unprovoked attacks that you deliberately escalated, especially alarming given your initial enthusiasm over Blom. Why does everyone look the other way there? I didn't deserve any of that. Blom was picking up steam and the plot (as outlined by Oni_link87, for those of you accusing me of not collaborating) was starting to go. He went CRAZY, people. And won’t even apologize for it. You’re a terrible GM (and so are the others who go tacitly along with your awful behavior). I’m not impressed. I’m not some kid you can badger around. Now, to be fair, stache19 also shares a lot of blame for blasting me out of nowhere, but he at least tried to work things out over PM, and he apologized, which I think was pretty cool of him. Even though he hates my guts again now, but I feel kinda bad for him honestly: he seems to float between polarized emotions. He’s a decent guy probably; you’re just a belligerent bouncer.

As I’ve said before, we had plenty of time to linger in Blom’s world before he ventured off into those of the other characters’. This RPG was going to go on for awhile right? It was, right? Let me - a total newcomer - establish my character. Just let me do it. Why couldn't you understand this? Why did you have to sabotage the whole thing? I could have started making illustrations for other people too, you know, imagine how much more alive the RPG could have felt then. Just try to be as laid back as you pretended you were. You don’t like my writing style? Piss off. You opened this up to the public; you can’t go back on that just because of a bad vibe, as Oni_link87 pointed out. Plenty of people PM’d me expressing they loved what I was doing, and apologized on behalf of you and your embarrassing behavior. I’m not going to apologize for entertaining people. I expressed my concerns at the very beginning that your obsession with lore, mythology, and cataloguing details overshadowed the bigger picture, but you encouraged me not to worry about it, just have a good time. So I did, and then YOU burned the bridge, buddy, don’t throw that on me. You’re just a total dick and a manipulator in the end. You are a bad GM.

 

[legendofmidna]

This is like a terrible-yet-entertaining low-budget zombie movie, except instead of a zombie infestation that won't die it's a dumb argument that won't die.

Seriously, we should all just let it go. It's over.

 

[legendofmidna]

That's entirely besides the point, that's all a personal issue now. Take it to PMs. This argument, right here, needs to die, right now. Regardless of what the outcome should have been, this is too far gone to change anything. We're shouting at each other from across a burned bridge.

 

[stache19]

Igneous, what else is left to say. You've aired a lot of thoughts. If you want to rejoin, take your chat with DEG and tristan to a private PM, and work it out like the adult you claim to be.

Otherwise, stop exacerbating an issue that the rest of us want to be over with. I'm not talking about right or wrong, I'm talking about the appropriate way to act. And don't go citing my previous posts, or yours, or DEGs, or anyones if it's an issue already covered. We're talking about our future actions, not past. We all want to move on, respectfully.

Take it somewhere private. This Disc. thread needs to return to standard RP discussion, not this type of issue.

 

[IgneousIndigen]

That's entirely besides the point, that's all a personal issue now. Take it to PMs. This argument, right here, needs to die, right now.

This is actually quite reasonable, and I'm happy to move on. All I'm really asking for at this point is an apology from DrEvilGenius. He got too carried away with his position and forgot what his words can do to another human being. No one is immune to remarks like you are not wanted and go away. And Fizzu is correct, he did implore everyone to "call us out on things." I've said from the beginning of this argument I would happily accept an apology and move on without any hard feelings!

 

[IgneousIndigen]

"Ball is in your court now, Igneous. Another chance to show your true character."

HMMMMMMMMMMM that tricky maneuver might work on those who can't see through your manipulative efforts, but not me. I'm actually NOT here to stir things up; I simply don't care to placate the tyrant of this thread. You want to move on without taking ownership of your behavior. You haven't apologized, which is all I asked for. I don't want to hear that "you're taking the community's thoughts to heart" or that you're "extending an olive branch." Knock that off. I wanted to hear that you were sorry for your words. I can tell that's something you're not used to saying. So I have an alternate suggestion. See what you think of this: I'm going to fuck right off, and you're going to continue bullying those with the effrontery to challenge your self-appointed authority on a public forum.

---

I feel bad that my final scene was accidentally deleted from the top of the 3rd page, so I've linked it again here in case anyone wants to enjoy the fine detail and easter eggs that decorate the Ragged Maiden's pantry! Blom and Glen Blomgrin wish everyone else the best as Day Two crawls forward (look out for Lynn Hothnight; she's a prickly one! I suggest doing what she says at all costs).

Edit:
I wasn't going to mention this but the more I thought about it the more telling it is, since some people enjoy discussing "character" so much. Check out this comment: "BTW, this ultimatum applies to everyone, actually. Anymore talk of this Igneous situation after this post, I will be ignoring you on IGN." The GM of this RPG is literally threatening everyone now. How am I the only one who sees the problem with this guy? "If you side with him, you are cutting off all ties with me, the most important user." Insane. This guy is a whack. Why did I even think he could be reasonable? (I am glad he blocked me on IGN so that he totally definitely for sure cannot see this...)

 

[Cream04849]

Good lord, this has become a bit absurd.

Igneous, at this point it's fairly clear where you stand, and in all fairness to you it seems clear that this situation could have been handled more appropriately. Yes, mistakes were made. Yes, DEG was rather heavy-handed in his response. Yes, it's fair to consider that an attack against you. Whatever else preceded that initial argument is irrelevant at this point.

But you're not blameless either, and I really wish you would try to see that. DEG attacked you. We get it. But you proceeded to attack everyone. Whether it was coming from a place of hurt or anger doesn't matter, because it poisoned the well and destroyed a lot of the positive perceptions people held of you. And, since you're so fond of quoting, allow me:

"I keep my opinions of the quality of others’ writing to myself; it’s not everyone’s strength here and that’s fine."

Just because you made your insults in an oblique and passive-aggressive manner doesn't mean that we missed the implications of them. So no, not all of the accusations against you are groundless, others just seem to be missing the finer points. You want an apology from DEG? That's actually completely reasonable in my opinion, given what a cluster this has turned into. However, in the interest of fairness, I want an apology from you for presuming to attack and treat with blatant disdain the aesthetic sensibilities and writing abilities of every single other player taking part in this game.

Without a bit of give on both sides, this has all just been a bunch of senseless bickering, and will get us nowhere. Nothing is going to get resolved unless you're both willing to acknowledge some fault and move on. Absolute victory in this argument is impossible, and the more each side digs in, the more pointless it becomes. Let's just all man up, admit we're not perfect, and find a constructive way to move forward.

 

[CakeMan42]

 

[IgneousIndigen]

Yes, mistakes were made. Yes, DEG was rather heavy-handed in his response.

You can all stop defending this guy. It's very obvious he is a darling of this Zelda board, and I have no interest in being part of a community that fears certain users. You must know it's total BS that he can lay down a bombardment like that, and then when I defend myself and ask for an apology, I'm only accused of refusing to move on. What kind of people are you? He can't apologize; that says a lot.

However, in the interest of fairness, I want an apology from you for presuming to attack and treat with blatant disdain the aesthetic sensibilities and writing abilities of every single other player taking part in this game.

That is fair. I thought I apologized for that already but I didn't. I'm sorry about that. That remark came from a place of automatic defensiveness over DEG's bad behavior but in the end I shouldn't have said it. This is RPG is not the place for me.

 

[legendofmidna]

You want an apology from DEG? That's actually completely reasonable in my opinion, given what a cluster this has turned into. However, in the interest of fairness, I want an apology from you for presuming to attack and treat with blatant disdain the aesthetic sensibilities and writing abilities of every single other player taking part in this game.

I think this is great. DEG just an apology, easy. I said I was sorry to you and everybody else here too for butting in. You don't need to be a part of the RP to see this guy's been hurt and all he needs are two words: I'm sorry.

Please before Cake posts more Frozen songs. That's even worse than a zombie apocalypse.

 

[Silverslate]

Iggy, bro, was there even a point to that last one? If you're trying to make fun of us, it's starting to leave the realm of hilarious jabs and is falling straight into just pouting desperation. If you want to be an adult about it you can bring it here instead of just mocking us like a child. We do enough of that ourselves, so it's really like mowing the lawn and then laying claim to being clever while attending a lawn mowing convention.

 

[Oni_Link87]

Well, after not posting for three months, I've finally updated for Taden.

I see that after 193 posts and six months of activity, we're still on Day/Night I, so I went ahead and started posting in Early Morning II. [URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/cream04849.374574/']@Cream04849[/URL] and [URL='http://www.ign.com/boards/members/drevilgenius.759837/']@DrEvilGenius[/URL], this timejumps Chamdar and Lynn.

 

[ShutUpNavi]

Thanks for reminding us Oni. I'll make sure my next post for the lake battle is on Dawn Day 2.

I'm kind of late to be posting this, but for those who might not have seen these skype I have a few small updates.

First I finished fixing the spelling on the RP Opening video.


Second I finished making an official artwork image of Polaris with the help of Redawson2. Thanks for all the input Red, I hope you like it.

Finally I'm going to switch Baron Simeon Ryssdal's Companion NPC from Zephyra Ryssdal to Shadow Nightingale. Zephyra will still be a major player in my story, but she will be more of an allied NPC than a combat companion. For those of you who don't know who Shadow is you can read his Bio page on the ZRPG Wiki here.

http://zbrpg.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Nightingale_(Bio)

 

[Oni_Link87]

http://zbrpg.wikia.com/wiki/Sudden_Silence

http://zbrpg.wikia.com/wiki/Interloper_War_Season_One_&_Two_Novel

Original versions of Taden's flashback post can be found under Season 2, Chapter 28. Also see the table of contents for Nick's novelization of IWS1 and IWS2.

 

[DrEvilGenius]

Just because I wanted to share...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEIE8i__kUk
Lynn's Theme Song

 

[Oni_Link87]

Lynn's flashback in my most recent post via IW Season 1, circa 2009 (h/t Nick's Compendium).

(This is not a bump...I just ran out of time on my IC post.)

 

[Oni_Link87]

So...I'd like to start a discussion about our timeline for Day 3, Day 4, and if necessary, Day 5. At our current rate, we're averaging a little over six months IRL for every one day in RPG time.

We know there are about three or four "Major Events" or plot points left before this RPG wraps (see wiki), essentially getting us from the last two Item Gets to the Final Battle, with everyone's side quests before, during, and after. I don't want to spoil any individual character arcs, so I'll leave it to others to give details about their characters' roles in the overall plot.

For my own planning purposes, what timeline do we see these Item Gets and the Final Battle falling on? Will the Light teams reach Ordon and the Desert Province around Night 3, and make it back in time for a final battle around Night 4, or is that not allotting enough time for travel? What Day/Night do we expect the main storyline of the RP to end on?

 

[stache19]

The desert group can pretty much sidestep all travel time restrictions thanks to Lia. So that can be as fast as needed.

 

[Oni_Link87]

The desert group can pretty much sidestep all travel time restrictions thanks to Lia. So that can be as fast as needed.

It would fit with what I have planned for the item quests to fall on Night 3, and the final battle to fall on Night 4 (if not Day 4). And then we have epilogue scenes on Day 5?

 

[IgneousIndigen]

Will the Light teams reach Ordon and the Desert Province around Night 3, and make it back in time for a final battle around Night 4, or is that not allotting enough time for travel? What Day/Night do we expect the main storyline of the RP to end on?

Thanks for asking. I'll have to do some planning, but I anticipate Blom's arc wrapping up independently of these events so I think we'll be okay.