what would you have changed in the DBZ sagas?

[Red-Haired_Shanks]

in the dragon ball z series i think it went down hill really fast and got quite silly. the saiyan saga was awesome, the ginyu/freiza saga was one of the greatest of all time, the android saga was good, then the cell saga came around and it was pretty good but this is where i would have started to change things, then the buu saga which imo was a total waste of a DBZ saga. it was just downright silly.

the things i would have change are:

-make Goku, Future Trunks and Gohan the only ones that could go super saiyan. Goten,kid trunks,Vegeta,etc.. should not be able to go super saiyan(maybe vegeta in a fight when he gets really emotional but not like goku who can easily go between forms.)
-change cells 2nd form. that looks incredibly stupid.
-dont have SSJ 2,3,4. instead have goku use the kaioken in his super saiyan form to reach the level and power of ascended super saiyan forms.
-no fusions except vegeta and goku
-have tien, yamcha, krillin able to contribute to a fight instead of just die or get cast aside like they are nothing. maybe give them the ability to use the kaioken since they were on king kais world for a while
-make the buu saga suck less. no stupid looking diaper buu, no SSJ goten, trunks or any of those. just have Majin vegeta SSJ vs goku SSJ, gohan SSJ vs majin buu, goku SSJ vs majin buu,vegeto SSJ vs majin buu, then the final battle with goku SSJ vs kid buu.

i thought DBZ could have been a lot better if the buu saga wasnt so bad.
what would you have changed?

 

[Jimconcrete]

Nothing series was great as it was.

 

[-Jalen]

Kind of wish Piccolo was ss2 level by the end of the series.

 

[Je4emy18]

Thank goodness that you weren't in charged of DBZ. =l

 

[Red-Haired_Shanks]

so your telling me you wouldn't change a thing about DBZ. so your one of those fans who think DBZ couldnt get any better and everything was perfect. thats insulting to the series. is DBZ the only anime you have ever watched?

 

[Je4emy18]

How can it be insulting to the series if someone thinks it was "perfect"? Its their opion
and there's yours. Nothing you say is fact. The legend creator made the Buu saga even though
he wanted it to end at the end of Frieza saga. Would you have liked that? I'm sure we would
all have. Seeing Goku becoming the legendary SSJ! But of course, we all wanted more DBZ.

And its pretty tough to top the previous saga, Cell saga. I was surprised series went on as strong as
Frieza saga. Buu may not have been my favorite saga but it was highly entertaining and was.....
just good enough, for me. It just made sense to me, the Buu saga. Like I said before, it's
quite a challenge to top the previous saga. Sure, some of us wanted Goku to stay dead and have Gohan
take the spotlight or Vegeta. But things didn't turn out that way. And yes, DBZ is my first love
and only the one I truley watched over and over. I watched some anime shows but didn't catch my
interests. The fighting anime show is what I'm talking about. Nothing beats DBZ, IMO.

How about YOU write a DBZ fic, on how things should have went after the Cell saga.

 

[Jimconcrete]

Yes I am one of those fans that loved DBZ for what it was. And no I wouldn't change anything. And yes I do watch other anime, what does that have to do with anything.

 

[SuicideKnight]

in the dragon ball z series i think it went down hill really fast and got quite silly. the saiyan saga was awesome, the ginyu/freiza saga was one of the greatest of all time, the android saga was good, then the cell saga came around and it was pretty good but this is where i would have started to change things, then the buu saga which imo was a total waste of a DBZ saga. it was just downright silly. agreed for the most part.

the things i would have change are:

-make Goku, Future Trunks and Gohan the only ones that could go super saiyan. Goten,kid trunks,Vegeta,etc.. should not be able to go super saiyan(maybe vegeta in a fight when he gets really emotional but not like goku who can easily go between forms.) What the heck? Vegeta got shit on enough by the author. Now you want to take his ssj away? smh, bro, smh.
-change cells 2nd form. that looks incredibly stupid. yep
-dont have SSJ 2,3,4. instead have goku use the kaioken in his super saiyan form to reach the level and power of ascended super saiyan forms. yep. mmaayybbee let ssj2 stay (as the absolute peak of the ability though).
-no fusions except vegeta and goku yep
-have tien, yamcha, krillin able to contribute to a fight instead of just die or get cast aside like they are nothing. maybe give them the ability to use the kaioken since they were on king kais world for a while yep
-make the buu saga suck less. no stupid looking diaper buu, no SSJ goten, trunks or any of those. just have Majin vegeta SSJ vs goku SSJ, gohan SSJ vs majin buu, goku SSJ vs majin buu,vegeto SSJ vs majin buu, then the final battle with goku SSJ vs kid buu. yep

i thought DBZ could have been a lot better if the buu saga wasnt so bad.
what would you have changed?

Just reflections on your thoughts.

As for me?

- the Saiyan Saga and the Frieza saga were perfect. epic as epic gets. wouldn't change a thing.
- didn't hate the androids so much as I hated their design (17 and 18). I don't want a bunch of loser ass teens going toe to toe with the super saiyans. shit was week. dunno... just, didn't care for it.
- Cell was pretty damned good. Not much I would change there.
- As for Kid Trunks and Goten................ take away their super saiyan. Didn't care for gotenks either (but I guess he was there to showcase fusion)
- Stop trying to point out how weak Vegeta is. Goku get's special training and lucky breaks left and right and all of a sudden he's the "better fighter"? (Goku is still awesome btw)
- While we're on Vegeta, can he get more than an assist on a main badguy for once? movies? ova? tv special? anything?
- I'd like to see more of an Ensemble Cast. I think the closest we got to that was the Cell saga with 1st place Going from Goku, Trunks, to Vegeta, then Piccolo, then back to Vegeta and Trunks, then Goku again (but secretly Gohan). The arms race, so to speak, was pretty cool.
- get off of regeneration's dick. not every bad guy needs it.

 

[Je4emy18]

^^ interesting sig. Can be done without the cussing.

 

[CapnMaynards]

Would have ended it at the end of Freeza.

^^ interesting sig. Can be done without the cussing.

No it can't.

 

[Je4emy18]

Sure it can, poop face! See!

---------

If you say so, buddy...

 

[SuperShyGuy]

give Vegeta a victory over the final boss!

 

[CapnMaynards]

Sure it can, poop face! See!

---------

If you say so, buddy...

 

[ELonzo]

One thing that bugged me was that in the Frieza saga Vegeta said Saiyans get stronger when they are near death and recover. What ever happened to that lol It's like it was just thrown out the window after that saga. I was highly entertained during the Buu saga when Majin Vegeta came in the picture and fought Goku for the second time. Even though Vegeta clearly won the first fight. Plus when he sacrificed his life to kill Majin buu was epic. One thing I would take away completely is GT lol

 

[WantABootHeelInIt]

One thing that bugged me was that in the Frieza saga Vegeta said Saiyans get stronger when they are near death and recover. What ever happened to that lol It's like it was just thrown out the window after that saga. I was highly entertained during the Buu saga when Majin Vegeta came in the picture and fought Goku for the second time. Even though Vegeta clearly won the first fight. Plus when he sacrificed his life to kill Majin buu was epic. One thing I would take away completely is GT lol

 

[ZaXoFF7]

Things I'd change?

End it after the Cell Saga. Done. The whole Buu saga was a giant cock measuring contest, and nothing really ever happens other than a mountain of unneeded transformations. It was annoying; though the art was sharper than ever before.

I guess I'd also tack on a small OVA that's simply a (non-canon) epic battle between SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta.

Oh, I guess if I'm getting rid of poorly written junk (that I still enjoy, mind you), I would get rid of all of the movies outside of Bardock: Father Of Goku, and The History Of Trunks. The OVA's like Son-Goku And Friends Return can stay, because they're simply made to have fun and look pretty.

Besides that the Buu saga was clearly not thought out, I felt that the ending to the Cell saga was perfect. You could say that the ending of the Frieza saga would've worked too. Goku became what we thought at the time to be the Legendary Super Saiyan. But there was still one big story concept that was unfinished; Gohan's explosive powers. He finally got his time in the light in the Cell saga, and became an awesome character with more depth than any other in the series. And Goku died, ending at very least his part in the series, if not what should have been the whole series in general. But they decided to continue.

I love Toriyama's work (otherwise I wouldn't have drawn the fanart used as my avatar), but he doesn't exactly have much artistic integrity. He wanted to stop the series after DragonBall, but was coaxed into continuing. He started to enjoy Z, but was adamant that it stop after Frieza. Again he forced it onward. Luckily the story still had unfinished business, so the Cell saga went okay. By this time, I can guarantee that he was beginning to grow to dislike being prodded so hard toward continuing the series, so he killed the main character, showing the death outright, and claiming that he did NOT want to be revived again.

Still it continued, but there was no real direction at that point. Characters became shadows of their former selves, exhibiting only their foremost personality traits, and forsaking any depth. More convoluted deity plots and awkward "The Earth is the center of the universe" disbelief suspension was shoved down your throat. And they untied dozens of knots they had tied previously, making the canon feel fragile and incomplete.

If they wanted to continue it so bad, they should have left Goku dead and focused on Gohan, who was clearly supposed to take over if the series was ever continued. Toriyama has clearly been doing his best to try and escape the monster he has created, since nearly it's inception. It's rather sad that he let it get as far as it did. He should have ended it after Cell, and maybe people would actually care about the plots of the new OVA's. Hell, maybe he would be revitalized by this point, and we could've gotten a new continuation of the series that's actually canon for once; and one that's ten times better than Buu will ever be.

 

[TellThemToBehave]

Besides that the Buu saga was clearly not thought out

Nothing was thought out. Toriyama wrote the entire series by the seat of his pants, making it up a week at a time. The fact that it went on so long while being coherent enough that people still assume there was a lot of planning going on says something about his writing, or at least his ability to think on the fly.

I love Toriyama's work (otherwise I wouldn't have drawn the fanart used as my avatar), but he doesn't exactly have much artistic integrity. He wanted to stop the series after DragonBall, but was coaxed into continuing. He started to enjoy Z, but was adamant that it stop after Frieza. Again he forced it onward. Luckily the story still had unfinished business, so the Cell saga went okay. By this time, I can guarantee that he was beginning to grow to dislike being prodded so hard toward continuing the series, so he killed the main character, showing the death outright, and claiming that he did NOT want to be revived again.

A lot of those supposed endings are a crock. The only real planned ending was after Shenlong was summoned for the first time. After that he just kept going and going, even after he stopped enjoying it. Artistic integrity is nice, but comics are a money business and doing Dragon Ball every week was putting food on the table.

If they wanted to continue it so bad, they should have left Goku dead and focused on Gohan, who was clearly supposed to take over if the series was ever continued.

This was the plan (with Toriyama outright stating it on the title page of Chapter 421) but Gohan just wasn't capable of driving the story. He never was. He didn't like fighting, he just wanted to get an education and be smart for a living. What kind of protagonist is that? So even though Gohan was more popular than Goku it just didn't work out. Goku couldn't not be the hero of the story. I think Toriyama's idea was to have the post-Cell stories be a third, distinct part of the story, the same way Chapter 195 was the start of a drastically new kind of story but thats just speculation on my part.

 

[ZaXoFF7]

That's insane to assume that Gohan couldn't carry the story. He was still a child, so there was every excuse for him to grow into a much more heroic character; one that understood that sometimes violence is the only answer. Imagine the depth and power of his character while he's dealing with the struggle of that transformation; not to mention how great it would feel when he overcomes that problem.

As for everything else, whether Z went week to week in the creative process or not, that doesn't mean that they didn't take the wrong approach to the Buu saga. They had hundreds of different ways they could have taken it, but they settled for transformation after transformation, and the most generic story/one-dimensional characterization there could be. The only redeeming part was the idea of Goku vs Vegeta again, but that only really lasted as a side show in the beginning.

 

[TellThemToBehave]

That's insane to assume that Gohan couldn't carry the story. He was still a child, so there was every excuse for him to grow into a much more heroic character; one that understood that sometimes violence is the only answer. Imagine the depth and power of his character while he's dealing with the struggle of that transformation; not to mention how great it would feel when he overcomes that problem.

As for everything else, whether Z went week to week in the creative process or not, that doesn't mean that they didn't take the wrong approach to the Buu saga. They had hundreds of different ways they could have taken it, but they settled for transformation after transformation, and the most generic story/one-dimensional characterization there could be. The only redeeming part was the idea of Goku vs Vegeta again, but that only really lasted as a side show in the beginning.

He just wasn't interesting enough to carry the story. Toriyama tried to make it work but he couldn't, Gohan's established character wasn't suited for protagonist.

And I think the Buu saga is by far the best part of DBZ, except for maybe the Saiyan saga.

 

[ZaXoFF7]

You can like the Buu saga all you want; more power to you in fact. I don't mind it either. But it was really poorly done.

As for Gohan, I already explained, characters -especially kids- can grow. That's the mark of a good character; and looking at Gohan the way he is, he could grow into a great hero. While Goku is one of my favorite heroes in fiction, he's an extremely shallow character full of nothing but cliches. If he can be a good hero, anyone can.

 

[TellThemToBehave]

You can like the Buu saga all you want; more power to you in fact. I don't mind it either. But it was really poorly done.

As for Gohan, I already explained, characters -especially kids- can grow. That's the mark of a good character; and looking at Gohan the way he is, he could grow into a great hero. While Goku is one of my favorite heroes in fiction, he's an extremely shallow character full of nothing but cliches. If he can be a good hero, anyone can.

I don't think the Buu saga was poorly done at all. It was a funny, exciting and emotional story arc and when it comes to Dragon Ball thats as good as it gets.

And when Gohan was made the main hero he was basically an adult. The first Buu saga chapter, 421, opened with this message:

"Dragon Ball" will continue for just a tad longer! From now on, taking the place of the late Goku as the main character will be his serious-minded son, Son Gohan!

From the looks of things Toriyama wanted to make the strip about Gohan as The Great Saiyaman of Satan City. But it didn't pan out, he just wasn't as good a hero as Goku so Goku was brought back and Gohan's reign as lead protagonist became a failed experiment. In the man's own words:

I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.

It makes perfect sense. The reason why Goku was so perfect for the role is because of those cliched character traits. He was designed from the ground up to be the hero, while Gohan had been developed for 226 chapters as a reluctant hero at best. To have him go from that to replacing Goku as the ultimate hero of the universe would be a derailment of everything Gohan had been moving towards from the beginning. Even when it was finally time for Gohan to whoop some ass near the end of the saga it was accomplished by removing Gohan's soft personality (for what it's worth, I think this would have been the best ending of the series from a writing standpoint but Vegito and Kid Buu were too much fun for me to want the series any other way).

 

[ZaXoFF7]

Great Saiyaman was a joke. If that was Toriyama's best evolution of Gohan as a character, then it's a wonder that his series ever even got that far. That is not at all indicative of what Gohan COULD have been as a hero. People liked Gohan's inner turmoil due to his unwillingness to fight. It made him deep, relatable, and human. Rather than turning him into a silly parody of a western superhero, he should have continued on the path that he was on, growing into the character he was when he gained the Elder Kai Unlock Ability, or how he was in The History Of Trunks. Saying Gohan wasn't suited to being a hero is a cop-out; he was more suited than anyone. And he did end up a strong hero; but by that time, Goku was on his way back. And there wasn't any evolution in between, leading to the Buu saga being extremely underwhelming and Gohan (along with everyone else) being one-dimensional.

As it stands, the Buu saga was nothing of import. It introduced tons of characters and transformations, and never expanded on any of them enough to care. Every time one character got stronger, they messed around, and Buu powered up. Then another character powered up to a higher level, messed up, and Buu got stronger again. The cycle had no depth, and threw power up after power up in your face.

The Saiyan/Frieza sagas had a total of two transformations that mattered; transformations that classified the characters in an entirely new way. SSJ, and Frieza's final transformation. Sure there was Kaioken, but that's a technique, not a transformation. Sure there were Frieza's other transformations, but he announced them from the beginning, proving that he was already stronger than his current state. He didn't stumble upon them like Buu. Sure there was Piccollo syncing with Nail (sp?), but that wasn't a real transformation, so much as the absorption of someone else's power. He didn't look different, he didn't really act different, he was just Piccolo stronger.

The Cell saga announced Cell's transformations at the beginning like Frieza, meaning you knew they were coming; they weren't just added in a split second to extend the saga. Then the only other real transformation was SSJ2. Kamiccollo was just like the sync with Nail, even though they act like he's a new character; he's not. Ascended Saiyan is just a Saiyan trying fruitlessly to power up. And each one of them was expected anyway. You KNEW Piccolo combine with Kami was something that could happen. You knew those that went into the Time Chamber would obviously come out stronger. You knew that Gohan had the potential to have explosive power.

Meanwhile, the Buu saga has the same exact problems that GT is hated for. Majin Vegeta is fine. Goku fights him as SSJ2... Suddenly SSJ3! That's okay, as long as it stopped there. Suddenly "Hey, I know fusion!". Then two Buu transformations within (I believe) a single episode; each stronger than the first.

Suddenly SSJ3 fusion! This especially doesn't make sense. Why if Potara fusion is stronger, can SSJ Goku and Vegeta not go SSJ3, but normal fusion SSJ Goten and Trunks can? Oh no! They're trapped in the Time Chamber... But not really. Yelling? Really? Yelling allows them to escape?!

Suddenly Goku's alive and Elder Kai Unlock Gohan! Too bad, Super Buu absorbs like three people in like two episodes, leadint to three new transformations. Suddenly Vegeta's back just at the right time... and "Oh, BTW I forgot about my magical earrings, derp.". But be warned, they're permanent... Or not...

Then Buu transforms again, and being pure evil, is much stronger. But somehow SSJ3 Goku stands up to him. Let's break this down:

Fusion is stronger than normal transformation regardless, correct? So SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

Then Elder Kai Gohan comes along, and is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. Then Vegito is yet again stronger than Gohan.

Through all of this, Buu transforms 5 times! Yet SSJ3 Goku -the weakest of all of the heroes- can stand up to Kid Buu, the strongest of all the Buu's?

Just like GT, the Buu saga is full of things that just happen; also known as deus ex machina's. And the contradictions... Oh God the contradictions! So many plot holes. Every time something good happens, something horrible happens directly afterward; usually do to one of these amazing powerhouses -with TONS of magical techniques- suddenly not paying attention to a single fricken thing around them. That's fine once or twice at most, but not as many times as it happens in this. There's almost no substance. Instead it's just a bunch of muscly idiots out-flexing each other, and then making a foolish mistake that leads to their failure. And every time, Goku bails them out magically. It's pathetic. Again, I don't mind watching it, and in fact, I don't mind watching GT either. But both the Buu saga and GT are near identical in execution, and both fail miserably in the quality department.

 

[TellThemToBehave]

Holy shit, wall of text.

I am not reading that.

 

[ZaXoFF7]

Holy shit, wall of text.

I am not reading that.

Doesn't bother me.

 

[Red-Haired_Shanks]

Holy shit, wall of text.

I am not reading that.

Doesn't bother me.

I read it and agree with everything you say. All these things were in there for the sake of being there.
the thing that I really thought ruined the series is the fact that every enemy is suppose to be the strongest in the universe then there is someone stronger than them immediately after? thats stupid.
Freiza was suppose to be the most powerful being in the universe and Goku was nothing compared to him until he turned SSJ. Then when Goku comes back to earth, Frieza is incredibly weak compared to trunks. I dont think that should have happened. and on top of that MAN MADE ANDROIDS are even more powerful that Trunks and Goku. so Frieza wasnt even stronger than a man made creation. he was a little punk, so the Frieza saga was not as epic because Frieza isnt even strong, Goku was just really weak. Then Cell becomes more powerful than anyone previous, so Goku and Gohan go into the hyperbolic time chamber . WHY WOULDNT THEY USE THE HYPERBOLIC TIME CHAMBER WHEN VEGETA WAS COMING TO EARTH??? so as it stands Frieza is nothing compared to anyone anymore, when he was suppose to be the strongest enemy in the universe . Then the buu saga roles around and Daboura is even stronger than Frieza at this point another stupid thing. so now buu is free and they're all trying to beat him. So Goten and Kid Trunks go super saiyan super easily when it took Goku and Vegeta a long time and a lot of effort to go super saiyan I find that another stupid thing. so Goten and Kid Trunks are stronger than Frieza(the strongest in the universe) and probably cell. Then everything that you said in your paragraph. the only redeeming part of the buu saga for me was at the very end when they finally kill kid buu. You just feel like its all over and its just such an accomplishment to finally have beaten him.

 

[ZaXoFF7]

Well, the thing is that there are explanations for most of those things you mentioned though.

Trunks was stronger than Frieza because he was raised in an environment that required you be tougher than the one the other characters were. It makes sense that he would naturally be stronger. Plus, he was trained by a super Saiyan.

The androids being so strong doesn't make a ton of sense, however, 19 and 20 aren't stronger than a SSJ; only 16-18 are.

Cell being stronger makes perfect sense, as he was created using the DNA of all of these strong warriors. And in fact, he starts not too much stronger than a SSJ.

There are several reasons why they didn't use the time chamber in the Saiyan saga. You cannot spend more than 48 hours of normal world time in there, or the entrance disappears and you're stuck inside forever. So it's not wise to waste that time. Plus, Kami and Popo can't spend tons of time in there; Kami might have already reached the max for all we know, having once been a strong Namekian warrior. And Popo can't spend too much time in their because he has to use up time every time he needs to restock the fridge and such. Piccolo wouldn't have gone in with Gohan, both because Gohan couldn't handle it, and because Piccolo's pride wouldn't let him rely on Kami and the heroes; he's still evil at that point.

Dabura is the king of the Demon world, so it stands that he would not only be pretty strong, but that he normally wouldn't interfere in earthly happenings. So his strength compared to Frieza's doesn't matter if he's not ever planning on interfering in the normal world.

While I don't like the premise of a magic egg from eons ago somehow ending up on Earth of all places, if you accept that, it makes sense that Buu would be so strong. After all, it's not like Goku/Frieza were the first strong warriors in history. What about the Legendary Super Saiyan, who -looking at the canon- could very well have been a SSJ4 or a Golden Oozaru.

And pertaining to kid Trunks and Goten being so strong, it makes sense because there is ample reason to believe that half-human/half-Saiyan kids are naturally stronger. That is mentioned once or twice as a possible reason for why Gohan is so capable of being strong.

I agree that once you get past all of the nonsense, the last section of the Buu saga is okay. Good action and good tension, although the Spirit Bomb ending is just a little questionable. The only reason is because -depending on the translation- Goku technically absorbs energy from the whole universe in the Spirit Bomb against Frieza; and it didn't kill him. But it kills Buu? There are some reasons why that's possible, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't feel weird.

 

[pizzachu1]

maybe make a few of the jumps in power during the cell saga more believable.

 

[ELonzo]

Great Saiyaman was a joke. If that was Toriyama's best evolution of Gohan as a character, then it's a wonder that his series ever even got that far. That is not at all indicative of what Gohan COULD have been as a hero. People liked Gohan's inner turmoil due to his unwillingness to fight. It made him deep, relatable, and human. Rather than turning him into a silly parody of a western superhero, he should have continued on the path that he was on, growing into the character he was when he gained the Elder Kai Unlock Ability, or how he was in The History Of Trunks. Saying Gohan wasn't suited to being a hero is a cop-out; he was more suited than anyone. And he did end up a strong hero; but by that time, Goku was on his way back. And there wasn't any evolution in between, leading to the Buu saga being extremely underwhelming and Gohan (along with everyone else) being one-dimensional.

As it stands, the Buu saga was nothing of import. It introduced tons of characters and transformations, and never expanded on any of them enough to care. Every time one character got stronger, they messed around, and Buu powered up. Then another character powered up to a higher level, messed up, and Buu got stronger again. The cycle had no depth, and threw power up after power up in your face.

The Saiyan/Frieza sagas had a total of two transformations that mattered; transformations that classified the characters in an entirely new way. SSJ, and Frieza's final transformation. Sure there was Kaioken, but that's a technique, not a transformation. Sure there were Frieza's other transformations, but he announced them from the beginning, proving that he was already stronger than his current state. He didn't stumble upon them like Buu. Sure there was Piccollo syncing with Nail (sp?), but that wasn't a real transformation, so much as the absorption of someone else's power. He didn't look different, he didn't really act different, he was just Piccolo stronger.

The Cell saga announced Cell's transformations at the beginning like Frieza, meaning you knew they were coming; they weren't just added in a split second to extend the saga. Then the only other real transformation was SSJ2. Kamiccollo was just like the sync with Nail, even though they act like he's a new character; he's not. Ascended Saiyan is just a Saiyan trying fruitlessly to power up. And each one of them was expected anyway. You KNEW Piccolo combine with Kami was something that could happen. You knew those that went into the Time Chamber would obviously come out stronger. You knew that Gohan had the potential to have explosive power.

Meanwhile, the Buu saga has the same exact problems that GT is hated for. Majin Vegeta is fine. Goku fights him as SSJ2... Suddenly SSJ3! That's okay, as long as it stopped there. Suddenly "Hey, I know fusion!". Then two Buu transformations within (I believe) a single episode; each stronger than the first.

Suddenly SSJ3 fusion! This especially doesn't make sense. Why if Potara fusion is stronger, can SSJ Goku and Vegeta not go SSJ3, but normal fusion SSJ Goten and Trunks can? Oh no! They're trapped in the Time Chamber... But not really. Yelling? Really? Yelling allows them to escape?!

Suddenly Goku's alive and Elder Kai Unlock Gohan! Too bad, Super Buu absorbs like three people in like two episodes, leadint to three new transformations. Suddenly Vegeta's back just at the right time... and "Oh, BTW I forgot about my magical earrings, derp.". But be warned, they're permanent... Or not...

Then Buu transforms again, and being pure evil, is much stronger. But somehow SSJ3 Goku stands up to him. Let's break this down:

Fusion is stronger than normal transformation regardless, correct? So SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

Then Elder Kai Gohan comes along, and is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. Then Vegito is yet again stronger than Gohan.

Through all of this, Buu transforms 5 times! Yet SSJ3 Goku -the weakest of all of the heroes- can stand up to Kid Buu, the strongest of all the Buu's?

Just like GT, the Buu saga is full of things that just happen; also known as deus ex machina's. And the contradictions... Oh God the contradictions! So many plot holes. Every time something good happens, something horrible happens directly afterward; usually do to one of these amazing powerhouses -with TONS of magical techniques- suddenly not paying attention to a single fricken thing around them. That's fine once or twice at most, but not as many times as it happens in this. There's almost no substance. Instead it's just a bunch of muscly idiots out-flexing each other, and then making a foolish mistake that leads to their failure. And every time, Goku bails them out magically. It's pathetic. Again, I don't mind watching it, and in fact, I don't mind watching GT either. But both the Buu saga and GT are near identical in execution, and both fail miserably in the quality department.

You just made me look at Dragon Ball Z completely different. You pointed things out I never really payed attention to. GREAT SCOTT!! Still my favorite anime though next to Hajime No Ippo lol

 

[ZaXoFF7]

Lol, I'll take that as a compliment

The thing is, two years ago, I looked at the series in an entirely different fashion as well. But the more I grow as an author, the more I realize problems with my old favorites. And watching Kai, then re-watching all of Z and GT proved the existence of certain faults. Not to mention I can pick out TONS more plot holes. I'd still be willing to say that Z is my second or third favorite anime (on par with School Rumble, and my favorite, Azumanga Daioh), but it has issues, likely due to the fact that it's from the eighties; when story in cartoons and anime weren't up to high standards, because they were "just for kids". And it's made worse by the issues brought up by the publishing issues and such that force and rush products.

 

[TzarDjinni]

my changes... keep Gohan at full power SS, and able to go SS2 in serious battles (in other words he never comse out of FPSS)
Keep Super Vegeta
Goku doesnt use SS3 so early on and almost dies trying to transform ss3
Future Trunks makes more appearances, ALSO have some storys about what happens after he goes back into the future... maybe he goes to Namek and uses the Dragonballs to wish back some people
Make SS3 more epic (although the first transformation was pretty epic)
Have Vegeta to keep up with Goku... i mean training in 500X gravity probably has some pretty extreme benefits

More cool Villians and introduce new Good guys
More adventures in Other world with Pikkon while Goku is dead.

Have a story focusing on Teen Gohan after he defeats Cell where he really learns how to use SS2
Have Piccolo, Tien Yamcha, Chiaotzu Etc. remain relevant

i could go on for days with ideas.

o yeah... HAVE GOKU AND VEGETA'S TAILS GROW BACK!!!!!!!!!!

Kid Goten and Kid Trunks shouldnt be so powerful either... they should actually have to work for their strength like everyone else

I think it be cool if it ended with Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta battling it out and eventually dying whie fighting each other, both going to other world and keeping their bodies and only stepping in when needed while Gohan Trunks and Goten are earths new protectors

and have the FINAL villian be.... ANOTHER SAIYAN *gasp*

 

[jeffknoxs]

Personally, I would have ended it with Vegeta killing Buu when he sacrificed himself, most fitting ending I think as well as the fact it would have meant all three major Saiyans defeated a major enemy and it would completely redeemed Vegeta as a character in every way.

Don't get it twisted though, I love the Buu saga for what it was, that's just how I would have found it to be a much more compelling ending.

 

[skorpio3]

in the dragon ball z series i think it went down hill really fast and got quite silly. the saiyan saga was awesome, the ginyu/freiza saga was one of the greatest of all time, the android saga was good, then the cell saga came around and it was pretty good but this is where i would have started to change things, then the buu saga which imo was a total waste of a DBZ saga. it was just downright silly.

the things i would have change are:

-make Goku, Future Trunks and Gohan the only ones that could go super saiyan. Goten,kid trunks,Vegeta,etc.. should not be able to go super saiyan(maybe vegeta in a fight when he gets really emotional but not like goku who can easily go between forms.)
-change cells 2nd form. that looks incredibly stupid.
-dont have SSJ 2,3,4. instead have goku use the kaioken in his super saiyan form to reach the level and power of ascended super saiyan forms.
-no fusions except vegeta and goku
-have tien, yamcha, krillin able to contribute to a fight instead of just die or get cast aside like they are nothing. maybe give them the ability to use the kaioken since they were on king kais world for a while
-make the buu saga suck less. no stupid looking diaper buu, no SSJ goten, trunks or any of those. just have Majin vegeta SSJ vs goku SSJ, gohan SSJ vs majin buu, goku SSJ vs majin buu,vegeto SSJ vs majin buu, then the final battle with goku SSJ vs kid buu.

i thought DBZ could have been a lot better if the buu saga wasnt so bad.
what would you have changed?

no majin vegeta or long hair goku or ape man goku? hey thats too much

 

[pizzachu1]

Then Buu transforms again, and being pure evil, is much stronger. But somehow SSJ3 Goku stands up to him. Let's break this down:

Fusion is stronger than normal transformation regardless, correct? So SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

Then Elder Kai Gohan comes along, and is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. Then Vegito is yet again stronger than Gohan.

Through all of this, Buu transforms 5 times! Yet SSJ3 Goku -the weakest of all of the heroes- can stand up to Kid Buu, the strongest of all the Buu's?

i know this is an old thread, but Kid Buu is not the strongest of all the Buus. He's weaker than Super Buu and Fat Buu, just more insane and destructive.

 

[ZaXoFF7]

This is a false statement for two reasons.

A. There is a point where Old Kai himself feels that Kid Buu is even stronger. It's a bit vague, but I believe that's what he meant.

B. If he was weaker than Majin Buu, then Goku could have easily beat him. Goku himself comments on how he could have -and should have- beaten Majin Buu when they first met. But he left it up to Trunks and Goten on purpose, hoping they would learn to be the new guardians of Earth. So why if he could beat Majin Buu, could he not beat Kid Buu if Kid Buu is weaker than Majin Buu?

 

[pizzachu1]

Goku underestimated how draining Super Saiyan 3 is on a living body. When he was dead he was able to hold the form long enough to stall Majin Buu for a little while, but against Kid Buu his energy started rapidly decreasing after fighting for a little while. This was a big problem since Kid Buu is essentially tireless.

http://www.mangapark.com/manga/dbz/c514/1

I'm not entirely sure if Goku could have actually beaten Majin Buu like he said he could have. I think he would have had to trick him into taking a hit from a full power kamehameha, sort of like how Vegeta was able to hit Cell with a Final Flash.

 

[ZaXoFF7]

But you're still speculating. I'm going off of what's said and show, and nothing more. BTW, I'm referring to the show in particular for the most part. There may be subtle differences in canon.

 

[Rapist189]

I would give a ressurection to Cell, 'cause he was my favourite villain.

 

[TheQuietOtaku]

The Cell saga is my all time favorite. I would however change the huge amount of attention given to Hercule Satan and the camera man. Sometimes they're funny but it's so overkill.

There should have been another season with Gohan as a teenager. He was so cute.... Saiyan Man is the worst thing they could have done. Absolutely ruined him.

I'd delete the entire buu sage. That was retarded... diapers and chocolate? Stupid.

 

[Safer_Seph]

Kid Buu is not the strongest Buu. He's the third weakest ahead of Fat Buu and Evil Buu. He's just nothing but instinct with absolutely no self-preservation so he's insanely dangerous and holds absolutely nothing back.

He's like a viking berserker, he may not be the strongest guy on the field, but still massively powerful and 100% relentless.

 

[TheQuietOtaku]

Who cares about that diaper wearing fat fuck.

 

[Maharishineo]

Completely agree about ending the series after the Cell Saga.

It even ties back to the Dragon Ball past via the Red Ribbon army and resolves a worst-case scenario future. How could an ending be any better? (Maybe I'm just forgetting the explanation but why didn't Buu show up in Cell's future?)

They conquered the strongest being in the universe. Who was left? Themselves; the worst version of themselves combined into one mega-warrior: Cell. Beating him proved they were capable of overcoming anything. How else are you supposed to make it interesting? From a story-telling POV, everything's been told. Hence the power-up cluster-craze that the Buu Saga was, as some kind of way to keep appealing to the testosterone-filled teens we were.

 

[Safer_Seph]

Completely agree about ending the series after the Cell Saga.

It even ties back to the Dragon Ball past via the Red Ribbon army and resolves a worst-case scenario future. How could an ending be any better? (Maybe I'm just forgetting the explanation but why didn't Buu show up in Cell's future?)

They conquered the strongest being in the universe. Who was left? Themselves; the worst version of themselves combined into one mega-warrior: Cell. Beating him proved they were capable of overcoming anything. How else are you supposed to make it interesting? From a story-telling POV, everything's been told. Hence the power-up cluster-craze that the Buu Saga was, as some kind of way to keep appealing to the testosterone-filled teens we were.

Babidi wouldn't have sensed enough high power levels on earth to bother trying to resurrect Buu there.

 

[Jdh3nz]

I know this is old, but just saw this and be prepared for A HUGE WALL OF TEXT

I could go on for hours and hours for changes, but the main ones I'd like to see is:

- Make frieza saga last, or end it there.
I think it's absurd how man-made creations can be stronger than a galactic overlord space pirate. (don't forget they're in the form of teenagers. ugh) I think the best option would end it at frieza saga with goku either dead or drifting in space, with Gohan being the main character to follow in his father's footsteps as piccolo his mentor and being the strongest defender of earth.

- Make the non-saiyan characters be useful by learning kaio-ken
From someone who saw dragon ball before dbz, it breaks my heart to see the humans becoming useless (EVEN PICCOLO DURING BUU) with the saiyans taking the spotlight. Don't give me the BS that they can't handle kaio-ken; they are WAY stronger than goku when he learned it. Limit the huge power gap between the saiyans and non-saiyans.

- Bring back tails on saiyans
This is literally the only distinguishing feature that separates the difference between humans and saiyans. They could really use their tails and go more in depth with them, like having your tail makes you stronger or you can only transform to SSJ when having a tail.

- Make gohan the main character.
Like I said above, gohan should've made him the main character after frieza or cell saga. Don't tell me that AT said he didn't fit the role, the real reason was cause the stupid fanboys cried for more goku. So AT gave him a SSJ3 transformation.

- Remove GT and Buu
GT was a disgusting mess, although they tried to use the same theme as dragon ball, (adventure and collecting dragon balls) but they failed miserably. Buu saga was really just there to extend the series, there's so many things that doesn't make sense and tons of plot holes

- Cure the power level disease
No extreme power levels or anything, remove multipliers, and just make the power level maybe from a scale to 1-100 or something, probably won't work but find a solution, since having a higher power level basically means you automatically win unlike dragon ball where they had to outsmart the opponent

- Limit the SSJ transformations to only one or two
Too many transformations means too many power gaps for the rest of the characters. At least only make Goku, Vegeta and Gohan super saiyans and maybe trunks but they shouldn't be able to transform easily, (like vegeta did) maybe in the middle of a fight through something emotional. Also, the SSJ shouldn't be turned on easily and then turned off. There has to be something to trigger it, instead of just grunting and then turning into a monster.

- Bring back the old Vegeta
Although it's nice to see the character development with vegeta during the series the sudden change in vegeta felt forced. For example, after goku and frieza are presumed dead, Vegeta proclaims himself as the strongest being in the universe with no one to stop him. But then suddenly the next episode he forgets about his plan and EVEN tells bulma and the others to just goku back to life using the dragon balls and forgets about immortality. I think we should still see character development for Vegeta slowly turning good like piccolo and tien but not getting married. The only problem here is no trunks, but that can easily be solved by just making bulma marrying yamcha and just making trunks a human found by gohan who was trained by him for years. (who was a super saiyan)

-Bring back the cast from dragon ball
I'm talking about Roshi, oolong, puar, and launch. Although they didn't do much it just felt better with them still supporting the characters. It's like AT just forgot about them. Oh wait...

- Bring back learning techniques and strategies to defeat stronger enemies
Back in dragon ball, people always learned new techniques to find a way to beat their opponents. Like tien for example, in the third martial arts tournament he learns solar flare to use it against goku and the multi-form technique as well. Or yamcha, learning the spirit ball. Although krillin learned the destructo disk and used it against frieza, that was basicall the last technique learned.

- Bring back martial arts tournaments!
It seems AT really wanted to bring these back with the cell games, the other world tournaments and stuff like that. It seems strange to me how the first episode of dbz is about aliens instead of martial arts

-Put more in depth stories about the races found ( like namek's history, the saiyans history, why there are so many mutants on earth)
We really need more details about these type of stuff because it makes a lot of plot holes, like frieza's race and what happened to them. Like for namek's history you could put they worship the dragon balls and are very sacred to them hence why they keep them in each village, or frieza's race doesn't appear because they were destroyed... BY HIM! Idk something like this would just fill in many plot holes

Well that's it, if you read this then I salute you for surviving this wall of text.

 

[SuperShyGuy]

What a necro.

But I wonder if they could ever wish to be Saiyans so they weren't so useless.

 

[TheQuietOtaku]

- Make frieza saga last, or end it there.

Um no. The Cell arc was 10x better than the Frieza arc.

- Make the non-saiyan characters be useful by learning kaio-ken
Absolutely. There would be so much more variety this way.

- Make gohan the main character.
Gohan would have been the main character if fanboys weren't so obsessed with riding Goku's dick. There should have been another season with Gohan as a teenager like at the end of the Cell arc. Adult Gohan was so lame. Especially that great ******man character development bs.

Remove GT and Buu
The Buu arc had its moments. The World Tournament saga was totally epic. Goku vs Vegeta was one of the best paced and choreographed hand to hand combat scenes in the series. Kids Trunks and Goten were interesting. Buu was a terrible idea. A fat pink blop, obsessed with candy whose screeching voice made every second of screen time unbearable. All in all, I'd say cut the Buu arc too.

- Cure the power level disease
Yea this became a major issue. There's some confusion as to whether Battle of Gods is canon or not. If so, then they have to somehow come up with a transformation which is more powerful than GOD... which is just stupid to consider.

- Bring back learning techniques and strategies to defeat stronger enemies
Yep. There would be so much more variety than just screaming, powerups and identical energy blasts.

Put more in depth stories about the races found ( like namek's history, the saiyans history, why there are so many mutants on earth)
Yup.

 

[psharma221b]

- Make frieza saga last, or end it there.

Um no. The Cell arc was 10x better than the Frieza arc.

- Make the non-saiyan characters be useful by learning kaio-ken
Absolutely. There would be so much more variety this way.

- Make gohan the main character.
Gohan would have been the main character if fanboys weren't so obsessed with riding Goku's dick. There should have been another season with Gohan as a teenager like at the end of the Cell arc. Adult Gohan was so lame. Especially that great ******man character development bs.

Remove GT and Buu
The Buu arc had its moments. The World Tournament saga was totally epic. Goku vs Vegeta was one of the best paced and choreographed hand to hand combat scenes in the series. Kids Trunks and Goten were interesting. Buu was a terrible idea. A fat pink blop, obsessed with candy whose screeching voice made every second of screen time unbearable. All in all, I'd say cut the Buu arc too.

- Cure the power level disease
Yea this became a major issue. There's some confusion as to whether Battle of Gods is canon or not. If so, then they have to somehow come up with a transformation which is more powerful than GOD... which is just stupid to consider.

- Bring back learning techniques and strategies to defeat stronger enemies
Yep. There would be so much more variety than just screaming, powerups and identical energy blasts.

Put more in depth stories about the races found ( like namek's history, the saiyans history, why there are so many mutants on earth)
Yup.

You do realize that by saying "fanboys weren't so obsessed with riding Goku's dick" ...you are a fanboy obssessed with gohan's dick...Common he had he's moment in cell saga...that doesn't mean he should be the main hero...What if yamcha had a monent? then would you make him main hero as well???? -_- Believe it or not....goku was meant to be a hero because of his saiyan trait(warrior) and gohan just trained even situation asked for....

 

[TheQuietOtaku]

You do realize that by saying "fanboys weren't so obsessed with riding Goku's dick" ...you are a fanboy obssessed with gohan's dick...Common he had he's moment in cell saga...that doesn't mean he should be the main hero...What if yamcha had a monent? then would you make him main hero as well???? -_- Believe it or not....goku was meant to be a hero because of his saiyan trait(warrior) and gohan just trained even situation asked for....

They still shouldn't have destroyed his character. It was basically a slap in the face to what he achieved in the previous arc

 

[Vegetassj3]

All sagas are fine expect majin buu saga its really pretty fucked up and akira shows that he hate vegeta where he make goku vegeta's superior and vegeta admit that goku is better than him wtf? The best thing about dbz was vegeta and goku's rivally and he destroyed that rivally he turned cocky vegeta into a pussy and destroyed his character thats why most of hardcore dbz fan hated dbz after that just because of shitty akira stupidity he made vegeta a joke he shouldn't had done that if he made vegeta a ssj3 than the entire series would be perfect and their rivally continues but no he fucked it all and thats why i will never watch new dbz series because vegeta is already finished so who cares about the rest i watch and love dbz because of vegeta and that bastard made him a joke i hate him and new series of dbz and these new series will never get that much success because 60percent of dbz fans are actually vegeta fans