My Dynastic Empire
A good number of years ago, I recall renting an action game that was rather easy to pick up and play. It caught my interest but when the date of its return arrived I noticed that the next game in the series had just been released. Right away I bought a copy of Dynasty Warriors 3. It drew me in with its vast levels, numerous battlefields, challenging enemies, multiple characters, and even the historical information on the people and events that inspired the game. I am likely one of the few that read through all the information that came with the game.
After a time, the 4th was released and I soon ventured anew across battle-scarred landscapes with even more of everything. I recall the biggest change was the addition of elemental orbs which only added their effect to the player's charge attacks when their musou bar was full, prompting the player to make strategic choice at any given moment. Naturally, I liked it just as much as its predecessor, but then came a something new: Dynasty Warriors 4 Empires. Not only was the player given all that was in DW4 but now they could create four of their own warriors in a edit mode, execute strategies as a kingdom, decide when and where to attack their enemies, but they could do it again and again on a map with randomly generated forces that all had the same goal of uniting the land under their rule. This wide range of possibilities captivated me in a whole new way and I gladly stormed across the land time and again.
In time, I heard a 5th in the series was releases, so naturally I was interested to see what the creators had come up with this time. It was another game with an all-around upgrade with additional characters, levels, and items. Sometime later I recall stopping in my tracks when I spotted DW5 Empires on the shelf of a local game store. Like a flash of lightning I bought that copy, went to my PS2, and dove straight into it. The sheer volume of what lay before me blew my mind: all of the historical information, ten edit character slots, selectable music tracks from DW 2, 3, 4, and 5, 48 playable characters with the option to play as one of three types of generic officers, 74 policy commands to choose from (with the option to go with what your subordinates suggest or select your own), 5 different scenarios and the randomly generated map, 8 options to choose from when starting a scenario all to tailor your way of conquering the 25 territories and unite the land.
That alone was enough to pull my attention for a good while, but I quickly found there was even more this game offered. In battle you could issue commands to your officers in general with the D-pad (attack, defend, rally to you, or leave it up to them) but you could also give individual units instructions from the in-battle menu. The usual poor performance of ally AI in previous installments made this feature one of my favorites. As the player expands and moves around the map there are five different music tracks to keep things from getting monotonous or grating. Unlike DW4E, this one had the ability (and an option you could turn off or reset all back to initial levels) to retain stat bonuses on a character from game to game, much like the main titles in the DW series. The single thing that held my attention more than all of the rest was that which I wanted since unlocking the 4th level weapons back in DW3: the ability to customize my weapons. Finally, at long last, I could fight with the warriors I wanted to, the way I wanted to on the battlefield, and with the weapons I crafted. Out of the many games I have played over the years few have come close to giving me the feeling that I had that much control over how I go about playing within the game's rules. Truth be told, this title drew me in so well that I lost track of several days and nearly missed the first day of classes for one of my collage semesters.
So strong was DW5E's hold that I was still very much enjoying it when I heard DW6E was released. My experience showed that the Empires games were consistently more enjoyable for me that just the regular title, and wondering how they could possibly improve on what DW5E had done, I got a copy to find out. Well... in my opinion they didn't. That's not to say it is a bad game, it is just very different. First up all the characters were given a complete redesign. The weapons I had come to associate with the names were largely tossed out. The combat system has only a vague resemblance to its predecessors. The game has more of an RPG feel to it with characters always starting at level 1 and only an option to keep previously crafted weapons by spending points before a game starts. It does have around four dozen slots for edit characters. The strategic element between battles was changed from managing gold to a few action points to allocate to any nearly randomly generated cards for the player to choose from. Not a bad system overall and entertaining in its own way, but when I look back to DW5E there was just so much more to it.
I was fortunate to hear through word of mouth when (the English server of) Dynasty Warriors Online went live. Naturally I had to know more, so I joined. Familiar faces, weapons, and movesets greeted me like old friends, and welcomed me to new battlefields with new challenges. Once more I was able to build a character (stats) and weapons as I wanted. As it turned out, my skills were quickly seen by the results attributed to be when the fighting was done. With the 12 vs 12 Showdown fights I was able to show not only my strength in battle but my strategic might in out smarting enemy players. Uniquely made as an MMO, I liked the idea of players banding together like the officers of Dynasty to combat a common enemy, so it eased its way into becoming a good part of my free time.
Sadly the best part about MMOs are also the worst: the people. As more players found ways to circumvent the game's rules (and very intent) I acquired a measure of fame for my calm, quiet demeanor matched with a sharp wit and a sharper blade. Friends that ventured to other Dynasty Warriors servers relayed tales that my character's name was known even in places I had never been. Through my own experiences, the similar tales of those I overheard, and slow decline of DWO's general state it became clear that the game and the community of players behind it were of little or no importance to the hosting company Aeria. Through indifference, incompetence, or outright distain from Aeria's DWO branch the game had bugs that went unfixed for years (some that were patched but reappeared with later updates), and many players that used nefarious methods outside of the game to give themselves an advantage went unpenalized. When emails came to me asking what I thought, I replied with what I had seen and suggestions to fix or work around certain things, but at the end of each I added a line that asked for anyone to send me a reply saying they had at least read what I wrote. In three years and over a half dozen emails sent not once did I get a single reply. I know Aeria was the middleman and Koei held the real power over what happened in/to the game, but Koei was not the one sending me emails, asking for improvement suggestions, or making posts on the game's forum pages. Just over three years on the battlefields of DWO the server was shutdown. On the last day I made a copy of my records for my memories and one records the time I spent: 11230 hours (471.7 days).
One year and one month after DWO passed I decided to see what the DW games are up to once again, and where better than the new release Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires. And my thoughts? Well, let's look at the details. First off I have the PS3 version so digital download only... yay. I watched carefully and the download took 26 hours, followed by another one and a half to install. Now then to the actual game.
Starting with the cast, the character count/moveset has exploded to 92 and includes a new kingdom (so much for the THREE kingdoms period). My learning curve is not aided in the least with every list showing just the character's name, no portrait (like DW5E) or the character model off to the side. The character designs are close to DW6 models, and their weapons are... a bit mixed. Liu Bei uses the two swords he picked up in 6. Conversely Cao Ren uses the buckler blade (4+5) as opposed to the trident he used in 6. Their names are also translated differently: 3-5E "Zhen Ji" and 8E "Zhenji." Which is more correct, I can't really say, but I know which I am more familiar with.
DW6E gave the player the option of starting the game as a vagrant, or as this game calls them, a free officer. While I don't mind that option as an idea, I find it does not add that much to the game. The entire point is to take over the land, and while a free officer your goal it to find a ruler that will take you in or try and seize a territory and become a ruler. It almost feels like an unnecessary step if not for the ability to leave a kingdom, once you have become a part of one, or try to rebel and fail, thus getting cast out. But that leads me to a conceptual problem I have with it: if the player tries to take a kingdom from its ruler (either as an officer of said kingdom or as a free officer) and fail, wouldn't that be game over? But no, you are just sent wandering again to try the same thing again later. You really do have to and take control either by becoming a ruler yourself or become a Strategist or Marshal and gain proxy control. Each of the game's turns is a month. As a regular officer I spent seventeen years doing what I could to (loyally) help the kingdom, but it didn't matter. The ruler's programming (I refuse to call it AI as there is a distinct lack of intelligence) is designed to kept it in a holding pattern waiting for the player to take some kind of action. Thus the entire mode of not being a ruler from the start seems largely pointless unless you like repetitive small fights (quests) that gain you next to nothing.
In the early part of the game, while the player is a free or common officer, you can take on quests. These get tiresome quickly. Sure they are over in 2-3 minutes, but so many are basically the same thing. Defend ___ Rescue___ Repel ___ Yeah yeah, kill enemies while protecting the stationary allies, done that a few dozen times now. It wouldn't be so bad, but you have to do them so many times, each time you start fresh to raise your friendship with those that offer said quests to get noticed and thus hired by a ruler.
One of the interesting points of this game is the stratagem system. Basically they are abilities that you select (out of battle) and can use during battle at a time/place you choose. As a common officer I quickly ran into a problem where the stratagems I selected kept being removed. Figuring out that certain stratagems can't be taken on quests and the game was removing them from my list rather than disabling them got old fast.
To put a limit on the player the game has an exhaustion condition which temporarily lowers your stats after repeatedly going into battle. It goes away in a short time or you can spend some resources to heal it faster. I don't see this as effective because the stats I get from leveling during battle more than makes up for it. My stats frequently are 2-3 times those of my allies, and that is with a 20% reduction, so why should I wait? To regain that red 20% and deal the extra damage to enemies that already die in one hit? Additionally it shows the decreased value in red numbers yet not the value my stats would be if healed.
Like previous games, DW8E gives a number for how many troops are at your disposal. I find this to be nearly meaningless. While you cannot send an officer into battle without some troops, the number allocated to them does not seem to matter. In battle the total relative troop count might swing a base one way or the other, which is negligible to the battle overall. They don't seem to do better with more, or worse with less troops. As a kingdom having a high number reduces the likelihood of others attacking. I find I quickly tally up a large number as in most battles I lose zero troops by the end of the fight. I am rather certain I am not that good and it is an oversight/error in the game's balancing. In DW5E your troops were the limiting factor, spending time raising you troops vs losing them protecting your lands and claiming others. To go from a resource needing attention to meaningless as long as you have some, seems wrong. Even when defending against multiple enemy attacks at the same time, I take all of my kingdom's troops into one fight and successfully defend one territory. I return to the map to find the other territory remained in my control... without a single soldier guarding it? That being the case there is never a reason to not use all of one's available troops on a battle.
Each new game starts with the player at a low level (assuming the option for a level boost was not paid for with bonus points). This does make it more like an RPG always starting from the beginning, but I find it hurts one of the things I liked about DW5E: variety. As long as the officer was in your kingdom and had some troops, you could take him/her into battle, just that one time if you wanted. With the unavoidable leveling system enforced the player cannot switch so easily. Sure you can select a different officer to control in that fight, but they won't have your main character's stratagems or levels/stats, practically forcing you to stay as the same character the entire way through.
While operating as ranking officer under a ruler the player is given the ability to help shape the kingdom by building facilities from which the player can buy weapons, items, or stratagems. A source of annoyance for me that happened a number of times was to construct a facility, which ends your turn, only to have the ruler's scheduled invasion take you straight to battle without the chance to make any purchases to aid you in said battle. I know it's not a big deal but it happened so many times it got on my nerves.
This game adds a new battle option: Raid an enemy territory, wakening their forces and defenses. Sounds kind of cool right? Actually it isn't. It is a max of three officers set to attack a small number of the selected enemy. The battle itself plays exactly the same as an invasion, just fewer units on both sides, and when you win... you get nothing. I guess it makes the selected territory weaker when you invade the next turn (if possible), but I have not seen enough of a difference to make it worth the time. Perhaps if Raids were more like a short quest (attack/destroy select objects to lower enemy defenses/troop count during an invasion) it would be more interesting and helpful.
One of the more pressing problems I have with this game is the computers execute raids on your territories as well, but you don't have to defend against them as they don't claim said territory. Then comes the question, how does the player tell which are invasion attacks and which are raids? I have yet to figure that out. It would really help to know that when more than one enemy is attacking my territory. I thought for a while the building icon it shows would tell me, but no it is just a damage indicator (normal to -3 before enemy claims it). Since the damage repairs itself at one per turn and the enemies mostly do one damage per turn I have taken to ignoring almost all enemy attacks. I lose no territory and save time for invading them. By accomplishing certain feats through a game you are awarded titles which grant small stat boosts. One of which is get attacked by three enemies at one time. This happened to me. I did not get the title. My guess is at least one was a raid and the game does not count those as attacks.
When selecting a policy to go with for a given turn I have noticed several times that the same command will vanish for subsequent turn/s. It is not because it has some sort of timer on it. My best guess is that many policies are linked to your characters morality level called virtue (+9999 to -9999 as expressed by an icon with five possible states). What confuses me most about these vanishing options is that it said option is negative, I used it to go more negative, it disappeared from my list of options, and did not come back until I had gone further negative where I could use it without limit (every turn). I am not sure what to make of it when this happens. If I cannot use a policy then gray it out like the others I can see in such a state. Do not remove it from my list only to have it come back later.
Every six months (turns) there is a meeting of your kingdom's war counsel. As a ruler you select the general policy for the others to carry out (recruit more officers, collect extra resources, search out diplomatic treaties, raid enemy territories). As a ranking officer your ruler sets forth his invasion plan and you can try to persuade a different target or not to attack at all. As a common officer you are just shown your ruler's invasion plan and date. At the beginning of each meeting you are allowed to choose from a list of six strategy objectives for the following turns. It boils down to you can select three from the six offered tasks for a little bonus experience. What's odd is the pool the six are drawn from numbers a dozen or so. As far as I can tell they are produced at random. Ah yes random, the pinnacle of strategic planning. Now wait, that is close to the worst. And if I am playing as the ruler, am I not the one to decide if my goals are being met? So who or what is offering these strategic objectives?
Moving along to the other major part of the game we come to the battles themselves. I think it would be wisest to start with the characters/movesets in general. DW8E follows close to the normal/charge attack system of classic DW games (3-5E + DWO). However the difference is not in the commands the player inputs, but rather the actions executed by the characters. In the classic games charge two (N->C) knocks enemies into the air. Charge three stuns enemies (N->N->C). And charge four knocks enemies away (N->N->N->C). In this game that mechanic does not apply. Some character retain some of this, like C2 knocking enemies up or C4 knocking them away, but that is not true for all characters/movesets. With no pattern being clear to me, I am left with case-by-case memorization: character 1 performs attack A for C1, B for C2, C for C3. I can't really say if I prefer it this way or the old way. The old way had a strategic value to certain strikes, where a this one has the characters just doing different attacks. In the old system I could stun strong enemies and knock them back to buy time for allies to reach me or flee a threatening situation. Here I find myself using the same (most effective) attack over and over. Since there is no real strategy in the move choice why wouldn't I use the move that hits the most enemies, or strikes multiple times for enemy officers? For one that could easily be considered a veteran of the DW series, I find this to be the most mindless and repetitive of the DW combat systems I have played.
With that said we move on to EX skills and and the Move List menu tab. EX skills can be simplified as a character's preferred weapon (I will get back to that shortly) which gives them a follow up charge attack on a specific move or two. Now a character can perform N->N->C->C. To the experienced DW player this is nothing new. The first thing that bothers me is the tab in the character menu (along with weapons and items) is the move list. The page shows the line of normal attacks, the line of charge attacks that branch off, and the one or two EX charge attacks present. That in itself is helpful, but that takes up only 1/4 of the screen. I know for a fact, as I can consistently perform this, that not all moves are shown. Jiang Wei has a combo of N->N->C->C->N. That is one of several I found that are not shown but clearly exist. So what is the rest of the move list screen showing? Why its a basic description of the EX attack/s and the names and description of the three (normal, alternate, and air) musou attacks. That seems unneeded whereas the character's actual moves remain hidden. This wouldn't bother me so much if the hidden moves were shown or not existent, as there was one character that performed the same 'hidden' attack many times over the numerous battles I used that character, but was never able to get a hold of what command activated said attack, and I spent several hours trying to figure it out without success.
One of the gameplay elements added in DW7 was that of a three part system (rock-paper-scissors) for all weapons. As part of that, all characters now carry two weapons, so they can switch if an enemy is strong to their weapon. This system baffles me. Why does it exist? What need does this fulfill? If this three part system needs to be in the game, I think I would prefer being limited to just the one weapon. Yes it would mean some enemies would be easy to beat, but also some would be more threatening and require more effort to overcome. But no, just push a button and the enemy becomes weak or at least equal to your alternate weapon. On a side note the button to switch weapons is also the one that the player needs to press/hold to use their alternate musou. It took me all of two seconds to realize that was stupid when the other shoulder button (guard/block) was a much more natural choice that won't change conditions between you and your foes if your timing was off.
The very first (top) option on the pre-battle screen is Battle Objectives. I was not really sure what to make of this as there is no explanation of this on screen or in the laughably vague tutorial. With two over lapping lists of four lines and no description for either list, I was not sure what to do, but I soon learned I could change the objectives between the lists with limited desired results. Achieving them grants bonus experience so it is not a big deal, but as an unsolved mystery it bugged me. At my wits end, I removed all the objectives from the list and at last gained the clarity I needed. The first list are the ones you have selected for the given fight, while the second is the pool available to choose from. My clarity of mind swiftly caved to a storm of anger at the sheer idiocy of this design. The ENTIRE RIGHT HALF of the screen is blank. So why did they not put the pool of possible objectives anywhere but in the exact same location (without any kind of shading, layering, or overlapping to indicate another list) as the first? No no, that would be too obvious. We need to have it in the same 1/4 screen box and give no help or explanation because... we're too lazy to make a separate text box or two? DW5E has a helpful text line at the bottom of the screen to help clarify such questions in all of its menus. Ironic that the lessons of history are lost on the makers of this installment, given the subject matter of this series. Needless to say I am not pleased with the way it's set up.
Once I finally got the hang of using it, I found myself divided. On one hand it helps you gain levels slightly faster. On the other you can pick through the eight (or fewer depending on the fight) choices and decide how you want to fight. As a regular officer I almost want my ruler to assign them to me to gain favor among his officers. The draw back to this is system is twofold: 1- the options (aside from two) are so general they don't affect the battle overall and could well be an after thought for the player. 2 - After achieving these goals, what reason is there to continue fighting? I find I frequently hit these objectives and charge the enemy camp to win the battle. And that leads me to one of my biggest problems with the game as a whole: 95% of all my fights end before or around 5 minutes long. Yes even on chaos (the hardest) difficulty, I plow through the enemies with little resistance. I find the difficulty to be generally low. It was not until I played hard difficulty and confronted Lu Bu in the event battle that my character suffered noticeable damage. On chaos enemy officers finally inflicted harm to my life bar but they could still be killed with a few hits and a musou to finish them off (as the game instructs the player to do) before moving on to bring a swift end to the battle. The weak enemies and short combat time leave me a bit unsatisfied. I know I could capture another base or two before going to the enemy camp, but what would that gain my character? More experience? Nope, it is not based on your tallied actions in battle other than the set objectives.
One of the recurring themes/achievements in the DW series has been the slaying of 1000 foes in a single fight, attributed or in imitation of the feat accredited to Lu Bu. I recall having to work hard and fast to achieve this with characters in previous titles and being rewarded by the game for doing it. DW5E gives said character an extra slot to equip an item in battle and an icon along with their stats. Now in DW8E I routinely clear 1200 KOs in a four minute fight without trying to. One of the long standing achievements in the lore of the games is rendered meaningless.
I must say I was rather interested in the Fortify Base option on the pre-battle setup screen. It gives the player the option to spend resources upgrading and changing the type of bases under your control. This sounded like an really interesting idea that could help combat the enemy. Within the first few hours of play I found this function to be superfluous. On average I can capture 1 1/2 to 2 bases for every one the computers take. Thus I can let them reach toward my main camp, cut them off, and charge them as they fall back. Given that, why would I throw my resources at bases that I don't even need to recapture in order to win the battle? The only time I think this function helped or made a noticeable difference was when rising up (as a free officer) to take a territory.
The mini map is one of my indispensable tools that I have become closely familiar with, to the point many in DWO commented that I have eyes in the back of my head. It was not too difficult to get used to the change of button (R2 DW standard -> Select), but what throws me off, as it did in DW6E, are the lines the zoomed in mini map shows through empty land. The small color areas are just sitting there indicating nothing, not even an area of control change. It is just odd seeing them and having to tell myself that it means nothing. Conversely I encountered several instances where my path was blocked despite my clear line of sight. The mimi map did indeed show I was unable to proceed forward. Looking closely at the screen I finally saw the problem: rocks. Rocks no higher than my character's shoes were blocking my way. I guess it would take some kind of uncommonly brave individual to venture over such rough terrain just to engage in combat with enemy forces, but where could I ever find such a character?
While I am on the map I must mention the minuscule size of the player's icon on the full map. Often I can't see it with a quick glance and have to pull up battlefield info to locate where I will start. The second player's icon is much easier to see, as it stands out much more. With the opinion of a friend concurring with my own, we agree that the zoomed in view if the mini map is too close, it covers too small of an area to be of much use. After locating my character I have noticed that on invasions the map always shows the player facing the wrong way. While not overly important it did disorient me several times before I caught on to what was happening. The last issue I (and others) take with the map is the way the supply routes are shown. Put simply, it is bad. No only do they appear like highways cutting through the map, but they obscure pathway/intersection details of the map I need to see to get from point A to point B. Even the menu map, which used to be 3D and rotatable in previous games, is now a flat unchangeable sheet that also fails to indicate the height of routs so what it looks like is a 2D positive/negative image of two snakes twisting around each other. So rather than the historically inspired maps of previous games, I get levels that feel like they are leading me through a series of hoops and eating up time as I struggle to find the path I need to get from where I am, to where I want to go. Nanhai and Xiapi maps are my biggest offenders. Even aside from the map design as a whole, I have a bit of an issue with how the levels look on the ground. In addition to most maps feeling a bit smaller than their predecessors, these levels are not conducive to sight navigation as there are many sharp and blind corners, which I easily pass and am left circling back to find the right path.
Wile fighting through the enemy forces, I soon found there were some charge attacks that would send enemies into very slow motion for a second or two. Let me be clear, this effect is not the game/console slowing down. It does not affect all enemies, allies, or the player. Just the enemies struck with one of those moves. I do not see the benefit in having a useful attack neutered by keeping enemy corpses (at times literally) hanging there and delaying the next batch of soldiers from spawning. I would much rather have all enemies dissolve into pixilated dust the instant their life reaches zero so I can move on to the next enemy/group, but no this game seems to want me to juggle the corpses of a dozen soldiers like some kind of morbid circus performer.
Imagine, for a moment, you are holding a bow and arrow and facing a target. You take your stance, set the arrow on the string, and raise your arms. As soon as the string is fully drawn your point of view swings forward to show your face. Now would that help or hinder your ability to hit the target? If you said help, then you must have aided in the making of this mechanic, because that's what happens every time the player uses a musou attack. Yes, EVERY time. I am at a loss for how anyone though this was a good idea, especially when the game's time is only slows while your character does the startup of the musou attack, meaning enemies can walk, be pushed out of the hit box, or just plain block your attack. By the same token, the enemies go into slow motion before they use their musou attack, allowing the player ample time to defend or walk out of the way before it executes. I find this window of slow time to be too much as it removes almost all danger from said attack. There is also a pointless slow down when you slay an enemy officer. It makes me scratch my head as to why this exists when half the time said officer is at an angle where he/she can barely be seen (usually obscured by the player's character or off screen entirely).
Getting back to the lack of smartness demonstrated by the computer, I need to bring up the enemy officer's behavior. While it seems fine on the map, and even a the limit of visual range, it is when the player tries to engage them in combat that they effectively become cowering children. If your weapon has the advantage and you swing your weapon while anywhere near them, they will snap to your direction and block as though they were a living person and their life really did depend on blocking you. Long chains of attacks will not break their guards like in DWO. Charge attacks will not create an opening by breaking their stance. Try walking around them and they follow your every movement, ready to snap back into defense. Using the longest combos available to me, I can usually get in a hit or two before they are knocked away by said strike, and then the dance begins again. I find it is easier to intentionally use a disadvantageous weapon because then they will not flinch and actively try to attack me. Though it does take a hit or two more than it would with the weapon they are weak to in order to bring them down, it is hard to ignore reduced damage vs no damage.
Concerning the stratagems, I wanted to mention that they nearly remove all threat from enemy officers. I often charge the mass of them, activate my favorite stratagem (+attack, defense, and speed for 40 seconds) and lay waste to their forces. What damage I take is usually so small I don't need to use my follow-up to fully restore my health. After a few fights of this pattern repeating, I double checked things. The enemies were at, if not a little higher, level than my character, and the game was on chaos difficulty. It is a bit odd that I can use both of those skills twice (allowing for their cooldown) before running out to the meeter the stratagems use. Perhaps I am just using a really good combination of abilities and how I attack, but the line spoken by Lu Bu in DW5 comes to mind, "Can anybody provide me with a decent challenge?!"
Two things that seem to be linked are the sense I get of less that full control of characters' actions and an apparent weightlessness to many weapons. By a lack of control I mean that certain characters/movesets have attacks with multiple strikes to them yet the player inputs a single command. While nothing new in DW (as I can name several characters from DW5E that have successive charge attack strikes) this game does not require the player to input charge attack commands to execute said following strikes. I find myself pressing it anyway just to stay in time with the character, even when I know it has no effect. As for the weightlessness, what I mean is largely attack speed. The overall combat of DW8E is faster, so when a character has a weapon with increases attack speed there are very few (possibly single digit) visual frames of a given weapon traveling along its arc. This results in the character snapping their arms from side to side and enemies flying back from nearly invisible strikes. It could just be me, but I don't find that to be particularly satisfying in a combat game.
As battles draw to a close I have seen a pattern of my allies choosing that time to start preparing their large scale stratagems. Time and again I take the enemy main base or slay the commander, then have to wait as a handful of battle messages work their way through, one by one, before the victory message ends the fight. The longest one I counted scrolled eight messages after the commander's defeat. I can't do anything, but it sure is a good thing those messages tell me about the preparations they are making to help win the fight... that is already over.
This game presents the same noticeable failing I saw in DW6E, namely all the bases on all maps are functionally the same. Enter, kill troops until the number reaches zero, move on to the next. There is no other procedure. I cannot tell what kind of base my character stands in at any given moment because they all look and function the same. DW5E has the same three types of bases but they looked different and those inside were different. Defense bases had stone walls, the units inside had shields and forks, and worked to block your attacks, seldom striking on there own. Attack bases looked to be constricted from logs, the units wielded dual sabers, and often attacked to interrupt the player. Supply bases had no special appearance, the units were equipped with a sword, and used attack, defense, or life restoring items to hold off the player's advance. DWO took the base idea further with six types: tower, juggernaut, captain, troop, officer, and supply bases. Why then with so much creativity and imagination already in previous titles have all been left behind with only one type existing on every single map?
It is my understanding that the way bases are liked by routs is supposed to reflect the idea of supplies and troops flowing to the front lines of a given battle, like links in a chain. Even this basic idea seems to be pushed more to the side to accommodate the new level designs. On a few maps I find myself having to pass, sometimes a good way, through enemy controlled territory so I can circle around terrain and reach the next base in the line I am trying to extend. This is very wrong to me.
I am not entirely certain yet if this is a problem with just a few characters/movesets but I have noted two specifically that are problematic. Both of these characters/movesets have their strongest weapon with the awareness skill (able to block attacks from behind) but also have an auto block function to them. Does not sound too bad until you take them into combat and find the auto block taking priority over the players commands and frequently stopping your combos. Near two enemy archer towers is nearly unplayable as every other second the auto block is defending me from the arrows that do negligible, if any, damage. I got stuck in a bad spot trying to kill the towers when three enemy officers stormed into the base at the same time. Suddenly I find myself with almost no control over my character as the enemies kept the character pinned against the wall, all the while I frantically pressed any and every command I can think of in the hope that one would make it through the 1/4 second gap in their collective attacks. The existence of an auto block never entered my mind as a good idea in all the days and years I have played Dynasty Warriors for exactly that reason.
Pondering what the problem was with the above incident, I came to notice a pattern of discrepancy between what is written (in the game's text) and what it actually means. I am not sure if the awareness skill applies as the character/moveset auto blocks without the skill, but it undeniably makes it worse. The title Moderate states "Maintain the same good & evil rank for 3 year(s)." First off, clearly more than one year is needed, so lose the parethesis around the 's.' Second the word 'consecutive' needs to be included. And third, it requires a neutral rank to be held for said duration. As it is written, it could mean any rank for said time, but that did not give this title. The strategic objective says "Attempt to use Alienate on other kingdoms." The very first word of it is a lie. It should say "Succeed in using" or "Successfully use." The Stratagem Concentrate says "Increase your rage gauge." A simple fix, "Fills your rage gauge." I am holding back many comments I could make about these rather simple errors, but I am curious how so many (there are more) made it to release without being given a second look.
A point of curiosity for me was seeing that (on my first time playing through Empire mode) my character reached the max level (99) with a little less than half of the maximum possible experience. Naturally, the question of what happens at max came to mind. After a good bit of time working it up, I finally reached the limit (just under one million) only to find that nothing happened. No message from my allies, not gold star for the character, not even a lousy game trophy. Just some lost hours. If something is that hard to get, usually there is something at the end of the road. Not here. Here just a solid stone wall.
The experience in this game can get characters up to level 99. Oddly I have never seen a character lower than level six outside of free mode. You might think level one is every character's starting point, but no it's level six. Aside from that, I know and can see the stats increase as levels increase but on the battlefield there seems to be very little difference. Showing this game to my friend, I set up a free mode battle with hard difficulty, ally level 20, and enemy level 99. After the fight ended even he remarked that there was no real challenge in that fight. With a level difference of 79 that just should not be. Upping the difficulty to chaos he (as I did) finally met some resistance. Not to say it was more challenging, but that the enemy officers were able to deal noticeable damage to him, and in a few instances take 50% or more of his life in a single hit with their musou, killing him. Oddly the battle was not over as he respawned at the main camp with full life. Even a second death did not end the fight. Finally making the connection to troop strength, we both agree that multiple 'lives' is just wrong for a Dynasty game.
Upon starting a new empire mode there are some choices that would greatly benefit from some explanation from the game. The created officer settings has replace famous/common officers with the options of all, favorites, and none. When I saw this for the first time I could not help but stare at the small enigma before me. To the best I have been able to gleam from others that asked about these options is they allow the player to make customized appearances for other characters in the game that are not the ones the player created. Personally, I don't see why this option exists. Some of the other options before starting a new game are bonus points options that allow the player to carry previously purchased items, stratagems, and weapons into the new game. Having the option to carry over is fine, I just don't understand why it wants to make the player pay (what little it is) just to continue playing with what they have already unlocked.
Another unexplained mystery was the Options tab in the main menu. Inside are tabs with the three shops and the player's bonus point total. With a bit of fiddling I figured out that buying things there allowed their use in free mode and would appear in empire mode as well (without needing to buy them in the game). Would it have been that hard to add a text box saying just that anywhere in the 3/4 of the screen that was empty space?
The number of small issues with DW8E gives me flashbacks to DWO. Mass donate policy does not count toward the donate1,5,10 times titles. Exhaustion removing policies can be used even when they will have no effect. The layout of the menus in game is awkward: with the policy menu (in empire mode) there is no info or system tab. It took a while to find that you have to press start to bring up another menu with character, ally, territory, and kingdom info as well as settings and system tabs. Finally under the system tab is the save tab. Does this sound like a good layout to anyone? Sure doesn't to me.
After some reflection, I must agree with the comment a friend made, that the Empires titles have become a 'create your own DW fan-fiction.' This title in particular carries that mark as much of the game's options and factors are related to your friendship level with other officers, be they in the same kingdom or not. More to the point is the ability to receive confessions and marry other characters. As part of a game I don't see much benefit to this. Yes your spouse (as well as sworn siblings) will stay with you should you leave, join, or create a kingdom and the game can create a child with the edit system (which can be saved as a character). Really, what is the point of this? For a game centered around combat and building a nation, this all seems out of place and detracts from the player's goal.
Considering saving in this game, it occurs to me that every time any save operation is performed a system file is also saved. Given that is the case, I must ask again, why does the game make player pay to keep using what they unlock and not just a yes/no option?
I am sure that all of this may lead one to conclude I dislike DW8E, but that is not the case. Clearly I can find a few *ahem* faults with it. But I can also see some good. There is an entire button whose purpose is to call your horse to you. Not only that but you can hold said button while running to your next target, and when the horse catches up, you will automatically mount it without ever stopping: genius. I cannot count the number of times I have wanted that function while in the middle of a battle and I realize my horse is almost at the other end of the map. To date I have not seen slowdown from the game as a whole that was not related to musou or select attacks. The ability to give orders to your army (when ranking officer or ruler) is a much welcomed return. The level of detail and graphics are quite good, though not a priority in my opinion. I really like how the war god's axe and armor buffs look, it just visually effective. The only issue I can raise with it is there is no indicator showing me how long said effects will last. In a two player game I am glad that the temporal reduction for both allied players is removed when using musou attacks. The two player modes in previous title often pushed the capabilities of what the games/systems were able of handling, but it this installment it runs just as well as the single player as far as I have seen. As a game in itself DW8E is decent enough entertainment. At the time of writing this I have logged over 126 hours and cleared empire mode eight times. With that I think it is fair to say mine is not a hasty glance at this title.
While waiting for DW8E release I was glad to see that DW8 had a blacksmith that allowed players to combine weapons and transfer skills in some sort of crafting system. It was a large disappointment to search every option in every menu only to find this game had no crafting at all. The weapons offered in the shop are all there is. Not even a higher level weapon to unlock in a specific battle, like almost all other DW games. That lead me directly to wondering what would keep a player coming back to play more? Stats? No, they reset at the end of every game. Weapons? No. This game does not even have the ending movie sequences unique to the Empires titles that were in 4, 5, and 6.
This applies to many games of recent years, so it is not just DW8E in this case. Undeniably the graphical capabilities of present games are astounding, especially for those that remember the emergence of 3D games. However, with that has come a trend of smaller/shorter games. In addition, playing online with others has seemingly become a priority for many games/companies. While I can't say that is bad per se, what often accompanies that is a lack of depth in a game. Falling into both categories I find DW8E to be very 'shiny' with online multiplayer, but that cannot erase questionable game design and a lack of depth (namely stat building and weapon customization).
Looking back it is fairly evident that an entirely new creative team was behind the games that followed DW5E as they were different in style, gameplay, and execution. Nowhere is this more evident to me that the tonal gap between DW5E and DW8E. 5 had characters with mostly realistic weapons and moves for those characters. There is a sense of gravitas to all characters' voices and actions, a sense that what they do is hard but important. In 8 I see a general heading into combat with a strip of cloth for a weapon, the successor to one of the three kingdoms who chooses to arm himself with a decorated bench, and a man who wields a rocket engine with a spike on the front of it. And those were just three of many I could point out. It is unmistakeable that the attitude behind these two games is radically different.
I get a vague impression that the attitude behind DW8E tries to step back from the fairly dark historical events by leaning the final result more towards 'a silly game.' As one that rarely gets investing in anything, that attitude (as presented in such ridiculous abundance as it is here) just does not sit well with me. Comparing DW8E to other recent games, it fares alright in my opinion. However when I compare it to DW5E, I struggle to see how DW8E has come out after and yet rejecting almost everything 5 did so incredibly well. I will be the first to admit that even DW5E had some flaws and limitations, but in the end, when I consider which game gave me the greater choices to work with and the more satisfying result when the land is finally unified after so many battles, all points stand with DW5E.
My say as a consumer over the decisions behind the games is small, almost unnoticeable. However, if this is the direction they choose to continue going, then all I can say is that it is my opinion that the best days for Dynasty Warriors are behind us all.
Regretfully,
Valgore.CL1 of Wei - DWO
If anyone working for or with those behind the DW games has read this, please let me know just that much.
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A good number of years ago, I recall renting an action game that was rather easy to pick up and play. It caught my interest but when the date of its return arrived I noticed that the next game in the series had just been released. Right away I bought a copy of Dynasty Warriors 3. It drew me in with its vast levels, numerous battlefields, challenging enemies, multiple characters, and even the historical information on the people and events that inspired the game. I am likely one of the few that read through all the information that came with the game.
After a time, the 4th was released and I soon ventured anew across battle-scarred landscapes with even more of everything. I recall the biggest change was the addition of elemental orbs which only added their effect to the player's charge attacks when their musou bar was full, prompting the player to make strategic choice at any given moment. Naturally, I liked it just as much as its predecessor, but then came a something new: Dynasty Warriors 4 Empires. Not only was the player given all that was in DW4 but now they could create four of their own warriors in a edit mode, execute strategies as a kingdom, decide when and where to attack their enemies, but they could do it again and again on a map with randomly generated forces that all had the same goal of uniting the land under their rule. This wide range of possibilities captivated me in a whole new way and I gladly stormed across the land time and again.
In time, I heard a 5th in the series was releases, so naturally I was interested to see what the creators had come up with this time. It was another game with an all-around upgrade with additional characters, levels, and items. Sometime later I recall stopping in my tracks when I spotted DW5 Empires on the shelf of a local game store. Like a flash of lightning I bought that copy, went to my PS2, and dove straight into it. The sheer volume of what lay before me blew my mind: all of the historical information, ten edit character slots, selectable music tracks from DW 2, 3, 4, and 5, 48 playable characters with the option to play as one of three types of generic officers, 74 policy commands to choose from (with the option to go with what your subordinates suggest or select your own), 5 different scenarios and the randomly generated map, 8 options to choose from when starting a scenario all to tailor your way of conquering the 25 territories and unite the land.
That alone was enough to pull my attention for a good while, but I quickly found there was even more this game offered. In battle you could issue commands to your officers in general with the D-pad (attack, defend, rally to you, or leave it up to them) but you could also give individual units instructions from the in-battle menu. The usual poor performance of ally AI in previous installments made this feature one of my favorites. As the player expands and moves around the map there are five different music tracks to keep things from getting monotonous or grating. Unlike DW4E, this one had the ability (and an option you could turn off or reset all back to initial levels) to retain stat bonuses on a character from game to game, much like the main titles in the DW series. The single thing that held my attention more than all of the rest was that which I wanted since unlocking the 4th level weapons back in DW3: the ability to customize my weapons. Finally, at long last, I could fight with the warriors I wanted to, the way I wanted to on the battlefield, and with the weapons I crafted. Out of the many games I have played over the years few have come close to giving me the feeling that I had that much control over how I go about playing within the game's rules. Truth be told, this title drew me in so well that I lost track of several days and nearly missed the first day of classes for one of my collage semesters.
So strong was DW5E's hold that I was still very much enjoying it when I heard DW6E was released. My experience showed that the Empires games were consistently more enjoyable for me that just the regular title, and wondering how they could possibly improve on what DW5E had done, I got a copy to find out. Well... in my opinion they didn't. That's not to say it is a bad game, it is just very different. First up all the characters were given a complete redesign. The weapons I had come to associate with the names were largely tossed out. The combat system has only a vague resemblance to its predecessors. The game has more of an RPG feel to it with characters always starting at level 1 and only an option to keep previously crafted weapons by spending points before a game starts. It does have around four dozen slots for edit characters. The strategic element between battles was changed from managing gold to a few action points to allocate to any nearly randomly generated cards for the player to choose from. Not a bad system overall and entertaining in its own way, but when I look back to DW5E there was just so much more to it.
I was fortunate to hear through word of mouth when (the English server of) Dynasty Warriors Online went live. Naturally I had to know more, so I joined. Familiar faces, weapons, and movesets greeted me like old friends, and welcomed me to new battlefields with new challenges. Once more I was able to build a character (stats) and weapons as I wanted. As it turned out, my skills were quickly seen by the results attributed to be when the fighting was done. With the 12 vs 12 Showdown fights I was able to show not only my strength in battle but my strategic might in out smarting enemy players. Uniquely made as an MMO, I liked the idea of players banding together like the officers of Dynasty to combat a common enemy, so it eased its way into becoming a good part of my free time.
Sadly the best part about MMOs are also the worst: the people. As more players found ways to circumvent the game's rules (and very intent) I acquired a measure of fame for my calm, quiet demeanor matched with a sharp wit and a sharper blade. Friends that ventured to other Dynasty Warriors servers relayed tales that my character's name was known even in places I had never been. Through my own experiences, the similar tales of those I overheard, and slow decline of DWO's general state it became clear that the game and the community of players behind it were of little or no importance to the hosting company Aeria. Through indifference, incompetence, or outright distain from Aeria's DWO branch the game had bugs that went unfixed for years (some that were patched but reappeared with later updates), and many players that used nefarious methods outside of the game to give themselves an advantage went unpenalized. When emails came to me asking what I thought, I replied with what I had seen and suggestions to fix or work around certain things, but at the end of each I added a line that asked for anyone to send me a reply saying they had at least read what I wrote. In three years and over a half dozen emails sent not once did I get a single reply. I know Aeria was the middleman and Koei held the real power over what happened in/to the game, but Koei was not the one sending me emails, asking for improvement suggestions, or making posts on the game's forum pages. Just over three years on the battlefields of DWO the server was shutdown. On the last day I made a copy of my records for my memories and one records the time I spent: 11230 hours (471.7 days).
One year and one month after DWO passed I decided to see what the DW games are up to once again, and where better than the new release Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires. And my thoughts? Well, let's look at the details. First off I have the PS3 version so digital download only... yay. I watched carefully and the download took 26 hours, followed by another one and a half to install. Now then to the actual game.
Starting with the cast, the character count/moveset has exploded to 92 and includes a new kingdom (so much for the THREE kingdoms period). My learning curve is not aided in the least with every list showing just the character's name, no portrait (like DW5E) or the character model off to the side. The character designs are close to DW6 models, and their weapons are... a bit mixed. Liu Bei uses the two swords he picked up in 6. Conversely Cao Ren uses the buckler blade (4+5) as opposed to the trident he used in 6. Their names are also translated differently: 3-5E "Zhen Ji" and 8E "Zhenji." Which is more correct, I can't really say, but I know which I am more familiar with.
DW6E gave the player the option of starting the game as a vagrant, or as this game calls them, a free officer. While I don't mind that option as an idea, I find it does not add that much to the game. The entire point is to take over the land, and while a free officer your goal it to find a ruler that will take you in or try and seize a territory and become a ruler. It almost feels like an unnecessary step if not for the ability to leave a kingdom, once you have become a part of one, or try to rebel and fail, thus getting cast out. But that leads me to a conceptual problem I have with it: if the player tries to take a kingdom from its ruler (either as an officer of said kingdom or as a free officer) and fail, wouldn't that be game over? But no, you are just sent wandering again to try the same thing again later. You really do have to and take control either by becoming a ruler yourself or become a Strategist or Marshal and gain proxy control. Each of the game's turns is a month. As a regular officer I spent seventeen years doing what I could to (loyally) help the kingdom, but it didn't matter. The ruler's programming (I refuse to call it AI as there is a distinct lack of intelligence) is designed to kept it in a holding pattern waiting for the player to take some kind of action. Thus the entire mode of not being a ruler from the start seems largely pointless unless you like repetitive small fights (quests) that gain you next to nothing.
In the early part of the game, while the player is a free or common officer, you can take on quests. These get tiresome quickly. Sure they are over in 2-3 minutes, but so many are basically the same thing. Defend ___ Rescue___ Repel ___ Yeah yeah, kill enemies while protecting the stationary allies, done that a few dozen times now. It wouldn't be so bad, but you have to do them so many times, each time you start fresh to raise your friendship with those that offer said quests to get noticed and thus hired by a ruler.
One of the interesting points of this game is the stratagem system. Basically they are abilities that you select (out of battle) and can use during battle at a time/place you choose. As a common officer I quickly ran into a problem where the stratagems I selected kept being removed. Figuring out that certain stratagems can't be taken on quests and the game was removing them from my list rather than disabling them got old fast.
To put a limit on the player the game has an exhaustion condition which temporarily lowers your stats after repeatedly going into battle. It goes away in a short time or you can spend some resources to heal it faster. I don't see this as effective because the stats I get from leveling during battle more than makes up for it. My stats frequently are 2-3 times those of my allies, and that is with a 20% reduction, so why should I wait? To regain that red 20% and deal the extra damage to enemies that already die in one hit? Additionally it shows the decreased value in red numbers yet not the value my stats would be if healed.
Like previous games, DW8E gives a number for how many troops are at your disposal. I find this to be nearly meaningless. While you cannot send an officer into battle without some troops, the number allocated to them does not seem to matter. In battle the total relative troop count might swing a base one way or the other, which is negligible to the battle overall. They don't seem to do better with more, or worse with less troops. As a kingdom having a high number reduces the likelihood of others attacking. I find I quickly tally up a large number as in most battles I lose zero troops by the end of the fight. I am rather certain I am not that good and it is an oversight/error in the game's balancing. In DW5E your troops were the limiting factor, spending time raising you troops vs losing them protecting your lands and claiming others. To go from a resource needing attention to meaningless as long as you have some, seems wrong. Even when defending against multiple enemy attacks at the same time, I take all of my kingdom's troops into one fight and successfully defend one territory. I return to the map to find the other territory remained in my control... without a single soldier guarding it? That being the case there is never a reason to not use all of one's available troops on a battle.
Each new game starts with the player at a low level (assuming the option for a level boost was not paid for with bonus points). This does make it more like an RPG always starting from the beginning, but I find it hurts one of the things I liked about DW5E: variety. As long as the officer was in your kingdom and had some troops, you could take him/her into battle, just that one time if you wanted. With the unavoidable leveling system enforced the player cannot switch so easily. Sure you can select a different officer to control in that fight, but they won't have your main character's stratagems or levels/stats, practically forcing you to stay as the same character the entire way through.
While operating as ranking officer under a ruler the player is given the ability to help shape the kingdom by building facilities from which the player can buy weapons, items, or stratagems. A source of annoyance for me that happened a number of times was to construct a facility, which ends your turn, only to have the ruler's scheduled invasion take you straight to battle without the chance to make any purchases to aid you in said battle. I know it's not a big deal but it happened so many times it got on my nerves.
This game adds a new battle option: Raid an enemy territory, wakening their forces and defenses. Sounds kind of cool right? Actually it isn't. It is a max of three officers set to attack a small number of the selected enemy. The battle itself plays exactly the same as an invasion, just fewer units on both sides, and when you win... you get nothing. I guess it makes the selected territory weaker when you invade the next turn (if possible), but I have not seen enough of a difference to make it worth the time. Perhaps if Raids were more like a short quest (attack/destroy select objects to lower enemy defenses/troop count during an invasion) it would be more interesting and helpful.
One of the more pressing problems I have with this game is the computers execute raids on your territories as well, but you don't have to defend against them as they don't claim said territory. Then comes the question, how does the player tell which are invasion attacks and which are raids? I have yet to figure that out. It would really help to know that when more than one enemy is attacking my territory. I thought for a while the building icon it shows would tell me, but no it is just a damage indicator (normal to -3 before enemy claims it). Since the damage repairs itself at one per turn and the enemies mostly do one damage per turn I have taken to ignoring almost all enemy attacks. I lose no territory and save time for invading them. By accomplishing certain feats through a game you are awarded titles which grant small stat boosts. One of which is get attacked by three enemies at one time. This happened to me. I did not get the title. My guess is at least one was a raid and the game does not count those as attacks.
When selecting a policy to go with for a given turn I have noticed several times that the same command will vanish for subsequent turn/s. It is not because it has some sort of timer on it. My best guess is that many policies are linked to your characters morality level called virtue (+9999 to -9999 as expressed by an icon with five possible states). What confuses me most about these vanishing options is that it said option is negative, I used it to go more negative, it disappeared from my list of options, and did not come back until I had gone further negative where I could use it without limit (every turn). I am not sure what to make of it when this happens. If I cannot use a policy then gray it out like the others I can see in such a state. Do not remove it from my list only to have it come back later.
Every six months (turns) there is a meeting of your kingdom's war counsel. As a ruler you select the general policy for the others to carry out (recruit more officers, collect extra resources, search out diplomatic treaties, raid enemy territories). As a ranking officer your ruler sets forth his invasion plan and you can try to persuade a different target or not to attack at all. As a common officer you are just shown your ruler's invasion plan and date. At the beginning of each meeting you are allowed to choose from a list of six strategy objectives for the following turns. It boils down to you can select three from the six offered tasks for a little bonus experience. What's odd is the pool the six are drawn from numbers a dozen or so. As far as I can tell they are produced at random. Ah yes random, the pinnacle of strategic planning. Now wait, that is close to the worst. And if I am playing as the ruler, am I not the one to decide if my goals are being met? So who or what is offering these strategic objectives?
Moving along to the other major part of the game we come to the battles themselves. I think it would be wisest to start with the characters/movesets in general. DW8E follows close to the normal/charge attack system of classic DW games (3-5E + DWO). However the difference is not in the commands the player inputs, but rather the actions executed by the characters. In the classic games charge two (N->C) knocks enemies into the air. Charge three stuns enemies (N->N->C). And charge four knocks enemies away (N->N->N->C). In this game that mechanic does not apply. Some character retain some of this, like C2 knocking enemies up or C4 knocking them away, but that is not true for all characters/movesets. With no pattern being clear to me, I am left with case-by-case memorization: character 1 performs attack A for C1, B for C2, C for C3. I can't really say if I prefer it this way or the old way. The old way had a strategic value to certain strikes, where a this one has the characters just doing different attacks. In the old system I could stun strong enemies and knock them back to buy time for allies to reach me or flee a threatening situation. Here I find myself using the same (most effective) attack over and over. Since there is no real strategy in the move choice why wouldn't I use the move that hits the most enemies, or strikes multiple times for enemy officers? For one that could easily be considered a veteran of the DW series, I find this to be the most mindless and repetitive of the DW combat systems I have played.
With that said we move on to EX skills and and the Move List menu tab. EX skills can be simplified as a character's preferred weapon (I will get back to that shortly) which gives them a follow up charge attack on a specific move or two. Now a character can perform N->N->C->C. To the experienced DW player this is nothing new. The first thing that bothers me is the tab in the character menu (along with weapons and items) is the move list. The page shows the line of normal attacks, the line of charge attacks that branch off, and the one or two EX charge attacks present. That in itself is helpful, but that takes up only 1/4 of the screen. I know for a fact, as I can consistently perform this, that not all moves are shown. Jiang Wei has a combo of N->N->C->C->N. That is one of several I found that are not shown but clearly exist. So what is the rest of the move list screen showing? Why its a basic description of the EX attack/s and the names and description of the three (normal, alternate, and air) musou attacks. That seems unneeded whereas the character's actual moves remain hidden. This wouldn't bother me so much if the hidden moves were shown or not existent, as there was one character that performed the same 'hidden' attack many times over the numerous battles I used that character, but was never able to get a hold of what command activated said attack, and I spent several hours trying to figure it out without success.
One of the gameplay elements added in DW7 was that of a three part system (rock-paper-scissors) for all weapons. As part of that, all characters now carry two weapons, so they can switch if an enemy is strong to their weapon. This system baffles me. Why does it exist? What need does this fulfill? If this three part system needs to be in the game, I think I would prefer being limited to just the one weapon. Yes it would mean some enemies would be easy to beat, but also some would be more threatening and require more effort to overcome. But no, just push a button and the enemy becomes weak or at least equal to your alternate weapon. On a side note the button to switch weapons is also the one that the player needs to press/hold to use their alternate musou. It took me all of two seconds to realize that was stupid when the other shoulder button (guard/block) was a much more natural choice that won't change conditions between you and your foes if your timing was off.
The very first (top) option on the pre-battle screen is Battle Objectives. I was not really sure what to make of this as there is no explanation of this on screen or in the laughably vague tutorial. With two over lapping lists of four lines and no description for either list, I was not sure what to do, but I soon learned I could change the objectives between the lists with limited desired results. Achieving them grants bonus experience so it is not a big deal, but as an unsolved mystery it bugged me. At my wits end, I removed all the objectives from the list and at last gained the clarity I needed. The first list are the ones you have selected for the given fight, while the second is the pool available to choose from. My clarity of mind swiftly caved to a storm of anger at the sheer idiocy of this design. The ENTIRE RIGHT HALF of the screen is blank. So why did they not put the pool of possible objectives anywhere but in the exact same location (without any kind of shading, layering, or overlapping to indicate another list) as the first? No no, that would be too obvious. We need to have it in the same 1/4 screen box and give no help or explanation because... we're too lazy to make a separate text box or two? DW5E has a helpful text line at the bottom of the screen to help clarify such questions in all of its menus. Ironic that the lessons of history are lost on the makers of this installment, given the subject matter of this series. Needless to say I am not pleased with the way it's set up.
Once I finally got the hang of using it, I found myself divided. On one hand it helps you gain levels slightly faster. On the other you can pick through the eight (or fewer depending on the fight) choices and decide how you want to fight. As a regular officer I almost want my ruler to assign them to me to gain favor among his officers. The draw back to this is system is twofold: 1- the options (aside from two) are so general they don't affect the battle overall and could well be an after thought for the player. 2 - After achieving these goals, what reason is there to continue fighting? I find I frequently hit these objectives and charge the enemy camp to win the battle. And that leads me to one of my biggest problems with the game as a whole: 95% of all my fights end before or around 5 minutes long. Yes even on chaos (the hardest) difficulty, I plow through the enemies with little resistance. I find the difficulty to be generally low. It was not until I played hard difficulty and confronted Lu Bu in the event battle that my character suffered noticeable damage. On chaos enemy officers finally inflicted harm to my life bar but they could still be killed with a few hits and a musou to finish them off (as the game instructs the player to do) before moving on to bring a swift end to the battle. The weak enemies and short combat time leave me a bit unsatisfied. I know I could capture another base or two before going to the enemy camp, but what would that gain my character? More experience? Nope, it is not based on your tallied actions in battle other than the set objectives.
One of the recurring themes/achievements in the DW series has been the slaying of 1000 foes in a single fight, attributed or in imitation of the feat accredited to Lu Bu. I recall having to work hard and fast to achieve this with characters in previous titles and being rewarded by the game for doing it. DW5E gives said character an extra slot to equip an item in battle and an icon along with their stats. Now in DW8E I routinely clear 1200 KOs in a four minute fight without trying to. One of the long standing achievements in the lore of the games is rendered meaningless.
I must say I was rather interested in the Fortify Base option on the pre-battle setup screen. It gives the player the option to spend resources upgrading and changing the type of bases under your control. This sounded like an really interesting idea that could help combat the enemy. Within the first few hours of play I found this function to be superfluous. On average I can capture 1 1/2 to 2 bases for every one the computers take. Thus I can let them reach toward my main camp, cut them off, and charge them as they fall back. Given that, why would I throw my resources at bases that I don't even need to recapture in order to win the battle? The only time I think this function helped or made a noticeable difference was when rising up (as a free officer) to take a territory.
The mini map is one of my indispensable tools that I have become closely familiar with, to the point many in DWO commented that I have eyes in the back of my head. It was not too difficult to get used to the change of button (R2 DW standard -> Select), but what throws me off, as it did in DW6E, are the lines the zoomed in mini map shows through empty land. The small color areas are just sitting there indicating nothing, not even an area of control change. It is just odd seeing them and having to tell myself that it means nothing. Conversely I encountered several instances where my path was blocked despite my clear line of sight. The mimi map did indeed show I was unable to proceed forward. Looking closely at the screen I finally saw the problem: rocks. Rocks no higher than my character's shoes were blocking my way. I guess it would take some kind of uncommonly brave individual to venture over such rough terrain just to engage in combat with enemy forces, but where could I ever find such a character?
While I am on the map I must mention the minuscule size of the player's icon on the full map. Often I can't see it with a quick glance and have to pull up battlefield info to locate where I will start. The second player's icon is much easier to see, as it stands out much more. With the opinion of a friend concurring with my own, we agree that the zoomed in view if the mini map is too close, it covers too small of an area to be of much use. After locating my character I have noticed that on invasions the map always shows the player facing the wrong way. While not overly important it did disorient me several times before I caught on to what was happening. The last issue I (and others) take with the map is the way the supply routes are shown. Put simply, it is bad. No only do they appear like highways cutting through the map, but they obscure pathway/intersection details of the map I need to see to get from point A to point B. Even the menu map, which used to be 3D and rotatable in previous games, is now a flat unchangeable sheet that also fails to indicate the height of routs so what it looks like is a 2D positive/negative image of two snakes twisting around each other. So rather than the historically inspired maps of previous games, I get levels that feel like they are leading me through a series of hoops and eating up time as I struggle to find the path I need to get from where I am, to where I want to go. Nanhai and Xiapi maps are my biggest offenders. Even aside from the map design as a whole, I have a bit of an issue with how the levels look on the ground. In addition to most maps feeling a bit smaller than their predecessors, these levels are not conducive to sight navigation as there are many sharp and blind corners, which I easily pass and am left circling back to find the right path.
Wile fighting through the enemy forces, I soon found there were some charge attacks that would send enemies into very slow motion for a second or two. Let me be clear, this effect is not the game/console slowing down. It does not affect all enemies, allies, or the player. Just the enemies struck with one of those moves. I do not see the benefit in having a useful attack neutered by keeping enemy corpses (at times literally) hanging there and delaying the next batch of soldiers from spawning. I would much rather have all enemies dissolve into pixilated dust the instant their life reaches zero so I can move on to the next enemy/group, but no this game seems to want me to juggle the corpses of a dozen soldiers like some kind of morbid circus performer.
Imagine, for a moment, you are holding a bow and arrow and facing a target. You take your stance, set the arrow on the string, and raise your arms. As soon as the string is fully drawn your point of view swings forward to show your face. Now would that help or hinder your ability to hit the target? If you said help, then you must have aided in the making of this mechanic, because that's what happens every time the player uses a musou attack. Yes, EVERY time. I am at a loss for how anyone though this was a good idea, especially when the game's time is only slows while your character does the startup of the musou attack, meaning enemies can walk, be pushed out of the hit box, or just plain block your attack. By the same token, the enemies go into slow motion before they use their musou attack, allowing the player ample time to defend or walk out of the way before it executes. I find this window of slow time to be too much as it removes almost all danger from said attack. There is also a pointless slow down when you slay an enemy officer. It makes me scratch my head as to why this exists when half the time said officer is at an angle where he/she can barely be seen (usually obscured by the player's character or off screen entirely).
Getting back to the lack of smartness demonstrated by the computer, I need to bring up the enemy officer's behavior. While it seems fine on the map, and even a the limit of visual range, it is when the player tries to engage them in combat that they effectively become cowering children. If your weapon has the advantage and you swing your weapon while anywhere near them, they will snap to your direction and block as though they were a living person and their life really did depend on blocking you. Long chains of attacks will not break their guards like in DWO. Charge attacks will not create an opening by breaking their stance. Try walking around them and they follow your every movement, ready to snap back into defense. Using the longest combos available to me, I can usually get in a hit or two before they are knocked away by said strike, and then the dance begins again. I find it is easier to intentionally use a disadvantageous weapon because then they will not flinch and actively try to attack me. Though it does take a hit or two more than it would with the weapon they are weak to in order to bring them down, it is hard to ignore reduced damage vs no damage.
Concerning the stratagems, I wanted to mention that they nearly remove all threat from enemy officers. I often charge the mass of them, activate my favorite stratagem (+attack, defense, and speed for 40 seconds) and lay waste to their forces. What damage I take is usually so small I don't need to use my follow-up to fully restore my health. After a few fights of this pattern repeating, I double checked things. The enemies were at, if not a little higher, level than my character, and the game was on chaos difficulty. It is a bit odd that I can use both of those skills twice (allowing for their cooldown) before running out to the meeter the stratagems use. Perhaps I am just using a really good combination of abilities and how I attack, but the line spoken by Lu Bu in DW5 comes to mind, "Can anybody provide me with a decent challenge?!"
Two things that seem to be linked are the sense I get of less that full control of characters' actions and an apparent weightlessness to many weapons. By a lack of control I mean that certain characters/movesets have attacks with multiple strikes to them yet the player inputs a single command. While nothing new in DW (as I can name several characters from DW5E that have successive charge attack strikes) this game does not require the player to input charge attack commands to execute said following strikes. I find myself pressing it anyway just to stay in time with the character, even when I know it has no effect. As for the weightlessness, what I mean is largely attack speed. The overall combat of DW8E is faster, so when a character has a weapon with increases attack speed there are very few (possibly single digit) visual frames of a given weapon traveling along its arc. This results in the character snapping their arms from side to side and enemies flying back from nearly invisible strikes. It could just be me, but I don't find that to be particularly satisfying in a combat game.
As battles draw to a close I have seen a pattern of my allies choosing that time to start preparing their large scale stratagems. Time and again I take the enemy main base or slay the commander, then have to wait as a handful of battle messages work their way through, one by one, before the victory message ends the fight. The longest one I counted scrolled eight messages after the commander's defeat. I can't do anything, but it sure is a good thing those messages tell me about the preparations they are making to help win the fight... that is already over.
This game presents the same noticeable failing I saw in DW6E, namely all the bases on all maps are functionally the same. Enter, kill troops until the number reaches zero, move on to the next. There is no other procedure. I cannot tell what kind of base my character stands in at any given moment because they all look and function the same. DW5E has the same three types of bases but they looked different and those inside were different. Defense bases had stone walls, the units inside had shields and forks, and worked to block your attacks, seldom striking on there own. Attack bases looked to be constricted from logs, the units wielded dual sabers, and often attacked to interrupt the player. Supply bases had no special appearance, the units were equipped with a sword, and used attack, defense, or life restoring items to hold off the player's advance. DWO took the base idea further with six types: tower, juggernaut, captain, troop, officer, and supply bases. Why then with so much creativity and imagination already in previous titles have all been left behind with only one type existing on every single map?
It is my understanding that the way bases are liked by routs is supposed to reflect the idea of supplies and troops flowing to the front lines of a given battle, like links in a chain. Even this basic idea seems to be pushed more to the side to accommodate the new level designs. On a few maps I find myself having to pass, sometimes a good way, through enemy controlled territory so I can circle around terrain and reach the next base in the line I am trying to extend. This is very wrong to me.
I am not entirely certain yet if this is a problem with just a few characters/movesets but I have noted two specifically that are problematic. Both of these characters/movesets have their strongest weapon with the awareness skill (able to block attacks from behind) but also have an auto block function to them. Does not sound too bad until you take them into combat and find the auto block taking priority over the players commands and frequently stopping your combos. Near two enemy archer towers is nearly unplayable as every other second the auto block is defending me from the arrows that do negligible, if any, damage. I got stuck in a bad spot trying to kill the towers when three enemy officers stormed into the base at the same time. Suddenly I find myself with almost no control over my character as the enemies kept the character pinned against the wall, all the while I frantically pressed any and every command I can think of in the hope that one would make it through the 1/4 second gap in their collective attacks. The existence of an auto block never entered my mind as a good idea in all the days and years I have played Dynasty Warriors for exactly that reason.
Pondering what the problem was with the above incident, I came to notice a pattern of discrepancy between what is written (in the game's text) and what it actually means. I am not sure if the awareness skill applies as the character/moveset auto blocks without the skill, but it undeniably makes it worse. The title Moderate states "Maintain the same good & evil rank for 3 year(s)." First off, clearly more than one year is needed, so lose the parethesis around the 's.' Second the word 'consecutive' needs to be included. And third, it requires a neutral rank to be held for said duration. As it is written, it could mean any rank for said time, but that did not give this title. The strategic objective says "Attempt to use Alienate on other kingdoms." The very first word of it is a lie. It should say "Succeed in using" or "Successfully use." The Stratagem Concentrate says "Increase your rage gauge." A simple fix, "Fills your rage gauge." I am holding back many comments I could make about these rather simple errors, but I am curious how so many (there are more) made it to release without being given a second look.
A point of curiosity for me was seeing that (on my first time playing through Empire mode) my character reached the max level (99) with a little less than half of the maximum possible experience. Naturally, the question of what happens at max came to mind. After a good bit of time working it up, I finally reached the limit (just under one million) only to find that nothing happened. No message from my allies, not gold star for the character, not even a lousy game trophy. Just some lost hours. If something is that hard to get, usually there is something at the end of the road. Not here. Here just a solid stone wall.
The experience in this game can get characters up to level 99. Oddly I have never seen a character lower than level six outside of free mode. You might think level one is every character's starting point, but no it's level six. Aside from that, I know and can see the stats increase as levels increase but on the battlefield there seems to be very little difference. Showing this game to my friend, I set up a free mode battle with hard difficulty, ally level 20, and enemy level 99. After the fight ended even he remarked that there was no real challenge in that fight. With a level difference of 79 that just should not be. Upping the difficulty to chaos he (as I did) finally met some resistance. Not to say it was more challenging, but that the enemy officers were able to deal noticeable damage to him, and in a few instances take 50% or more of his life in a single hit with their musou, killing him. Oddly the battle was not over as he respawned at the main camp with full life. Even a second death did not end the fight. Finally making the connection to troop strength, we both agree that multiple 'lives' is just wrong for a Dynasty game.
Upon starting a new empire mode there are some choices that would greatly benefit from some explanation from the game. The created officer settings has replace famous/common officers with the options of all, favorites, and none. When I saw this for the first time I could not help but stare at the small enigma before me. To the best I have been able to gleam from others that asked about these options is they allow the player to make customized appearances for other characters in the game that are not the ones the player created. Personally, I don't see why this option exists. Some of the other options before starting a new game are bonus points options that allow the player to carry previously purchased items, stratagems, and weapons into the new game. Having the option to carry over is fine, I just don't understand why it wants to make the player pay (what little it is) just to continue playing with what they have already unlocked.
Another unexplained mystery was the Options tab in the main menu. Inside are tabs with the three shops and the player's bonus point total. With a bit of fiddling I figured out that buying things there allowed their use in free mode and would appear in empire mode as well (without needing to buy them in the game). Would it have been that hard to add a text box saying just that anywhere in the 3/4 of the screen that was empty space?
The number of small issues with DW8E gives me flashbacks to DWO. Mass donate policy does not count toward the donate1,5,10 times titles. Exhaustion removing policies can be used even when they will have no effect. The layout of the menus in game is awkward: with the policy menu (in empire mode) there is no info or system tab. It took a while to find that you have to press start to bring up another menu with character, ally, territory, and kingdom info as well as settings and system tabs. Finally under the system tab is the save tab. Does this sound like a good layout to anyone? Sure doesn't to me.
After some reflection, I must agree with the comment a friend made, that the Empires titles have become a 'create your own DW fan-fiction.' This title in particular carries that mark as much of the game's options and factors are related to your friendship level with other officers, be they in the same kingdom or not. More to the point is the ability to receive confessions and marry other characters. As part of a game I don't see much benefit to this. Yes your spouse (as well as sworn siblings) will stay with you should you leave, join, or create a kingdom and the game can create a child with the edit system (which can be saved as a character). Really, what is the point of this? For a game centered around combat and building a nation, this all seems out of place and detracts from the player's goal.
Considering saving in this game, it occurs to me that every time any save operation is performed a system file is also saved. Given that is the case, I must ask again, why does the game make player pay to keep using what they unlock and not just a yes/no option?
I am sure that all of this may lead one to conclude I dislike DW8E, but that is not the case. Clearly I can find a few *ahem* faults with it. But I can also see some good. There is an entire button whose purpose is to call your horse to you. Not only that but you can hold said button while running to your next target, and when the horse catches up, you will automatically mount it without ever stopping: genius. I cannot count the number of times I have wanted that function while in the middle of a battle and I realize my horse is almost at the other end of the map. To date I have not seen slowdown from the game as a whole that was not related to musou or select attacks. The ability to give orders to your army (when ranking officer or ruler) is a much welcomed return. The level of detail and graphics are quite good, though not a priority in my opinion. I really like how the war god's axe and armor buffs look, it just visually effective. The only issue I can raise with it is there is no indicator showing me how long said effects will last. In a two player game I am glad that the temporal reduction for both allied players is removed when using musou attacks. The two player modes in previous title often pushed the capabilities of what the games/systems were able of handling, but it this installment it runs just as well as the single player as far as I have seen. As a game in itself DW8E is decent enough entertainment. At the time of writing this I have logged over 126 hours and cleared empire mode eight times. With that I think it is fair to say mine is not a hasty glance at this title.
While waiting for DW8E release I was glad to see that DW8 had a blacksmith that allowed players to combine weapons and transfer skills in some sort of crafting system. It was a large disappointment to search every option in every menu only to find this game had no crafting at all. The weapons offered in the shop are all there is. Not even a higher level weapon to unlock in a specific battle, like almost all other DW games. That lead me directly to wondering what would keep a player coming back to play more? Stats? No, they reset at the end of every game. Weapons? No. This game does not even have the ending movie sequences unique to the Empires titles that were in 4, 5, and 6.
This applies to many games of recent years, so it is not just DW8E in this case. Undeniably the graphical capabilities of present games are astounding, especially for those that remember the emergence of 3D games. However, with that has come a trend of smaller/shorter games. In addition, playing online with others has seemingly become a priority for many games/companies. While I can't say that is bad per se, what often accompanies that is a lack of depth in a game. Falling into both categories I find DW8E to be very 'shiny' with online multiplayer, but that cannot erase questionable game design and a lack of depth (namely stat building and weapon customization).
Looking back it is fairly evident that an entirely new creative team was behind the games that followed DW5E as they were different in style, gameplay, and execution. Nowhere is this more evident to me that the tonal gap between DW5E and DW8E. 5 had characters with mostly realistic weapons and moves for those characters. There is a sense of gravitas to all characters' voices and actions, a sense that what they do is hard but important. In 8 I see a general heading into combat with a strip of cloth for a weapon, the successor to one of the three kingdoms who chooses to arm himself with a decorated bench, and a man who wields a rocket engine with a spike on the front of it. And those were just three of many I could point out. It is unmistakeable that the attitude behind these two games is radically different.
I get a vague impression that the attitude behind DW8E tries to step back from the fairly dark historical events by leaning the final result more towards 'a silly game.' As one that rarely gets investing in anything, that attitude (as presented in such ridiculous abundance as it is here) just does not sit well with me. Comparing DW8E to other recent games, it fares alright in my opinion. However when I compare it to DW5E, I struggle to see how DW8E has come out after and yet rejecting almost everything 5 did so incredibly well. I will be the first to admit that even DW5E had some flaws and limitations, but in the end, when I consider which game gave me the greater choices to work with and the more satisfying result when the land is finally unified after so many battles, all points stand with DW5E.
My say as a consumer over the decisions behind the games is small, almost unnoticeable. However, if this is the direction they choose to continue going, then all I can say is that it is my opinion that the best days for Dynasty Warriors are behind us all.
Regretfully,
Valgore.CL1 of Wei - DWO
If anyone working for or with those behind the DW games has read this, please let me know just that much.
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