The Offspring – Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace

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Article Comments for [link=http://music.ign.com/articles/882/882632p1.html]The Offspring – Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace[/link]
by Ed Thompson

Summary: I am just going to start by saying this: I hate Bob Rock. With a white hot passion. He takes everything that is good about music and drains every last bit of that goodness, leaving only predictable hooks, formulaic choruses and bland verses. He is death on good music. Period. [link=http://music.ign.com/articles/882/882632p1.html]Read Full Article[/link]

 

[Neuropod]

Wow, you really hate Bob Rock.

 

[shaunofthedeaduk]

"If I could talk directly to Dexter Holland, Kevin "Noodles" Wasserman and the rest of the band, I would sit them down and tell them one thing: "Run away from bob Rock. Run as far and as fast away from that guy as you possibly can." If they questioned my judgment, I would just hand them a copy of St. Anger."
I totally agree with that statement bob rock sucks album isn't as bad as i was expecting it to be. all in all agree mostly with the review 7.5 is score id give it

 

[JimmyT666]

I think this is a totally valid review. I used to love The Offspring back in the day. Maybe you could republish this article as an editorial on how you think Bob Rock ruins good music!

 

[Spade484]

Correction.

"Bob Rock takes music that YOU enjoyed and turns it into music YOU dont enjoy."

Good and Bad in music are a matter of opinion.

Now, I hate St.Anger, but on that note, I hate metallica.

Love offspring, love the new cd. Hammerhead is easily one of thier best singles. Offspring already hit its lowest low. (Americana) And they have been slowly picking themselves back up since. Conspiracy was a little better, splinter rocked, and this almost returns to its roots.

Last point. You need to realize one thing. When a band makes a new album, the point is to change the sound. You already have the fanbase from the old stuff. You need to capture newer fanbases. The first offspring cd (and im talking self titled, yes, im that old.) Came out in the very early 90s. Now its what? Almost 2010? 15+ years. The youth has changed. So if these bands want to stay popular, they need to change with it.

And thats my two cents. Flame on!

 

[legacyAccount]

I havent listened to the album very much yet, but I agree with the statement "i hate Bob Rock" %50000000. This guy is like Altair or Sam Fisher for music. He will go up to you, and then stab your album in the throat.

 

[legacyAccount]

i love this album, it deserves at least an 8 and up. in the slower songs it totally reminded me of green day. i also heard a little weird al in them too, strangely enough. fall out boy is also present, and a little muse too. i just love this album, there really arent any throw away songs (unless u dont like cursing in 2 songs) but thats classic offspring people. i just think its amazing that dexter is 43! he sounds great for his age. keep up the good work guys!

 

[xmysticwraithx]

I liked this album a lot, I wasn't really expecting much out of it but it seriously amazed me. My opinion of this review is that it was pretty solid, but it definately should have been written by someone who didn't hate Bob Rock, because then it would have been less biased and would have gotten the score it deserved (which in my opinion is around an 8 or 8.5)...im just saying i couldn't hear Bob Rock's influence simply because i actually hadn't heard of him before.

 

[SemiHumanTarget]

When I lived in Japan I used to spend a lot of hazy nights belting out Offspring classics in a karaoke box with friends. The catchy tunes are easy to sing and get everybody roudy in that tiny box when the booze is flowing.

But Offspring have, since their first major label record, been pretty prone to pop-punk manipulation and while I haven't heard this album I'm sure it's no different. I moved away from the punk/pop-punk/melodic noise scene a while back when I saw it was going to take a dive, and it certainly did. Everybody is changing their image these days and indie is now the new mainstream. You have to look damn hard to find a band that isn't overproduced and attempting to cash in on someone else's success now.

It seems like just about every band is getting castrated by their producers and i'm sure the offspring went under the knife too.

That said, I'll always have a soft spot for those albums that maybe you don't listen to for their artistic quality but for their decible blastability and the way they make you feel when you're cruising the highway with some buddies at 1 am in the summer with the windows down and the breeze on your face. Or the drunken nights at the karaoke bar, with the all-you-can-drink flowing free right after you and your friends decided "fuck the last train". The Offspring have always pushed these particular buttons for me.

 

[legacyAccount]

I really like this album. Is far better than Americana and Smash(for me, their most overrated album), but is not better that Ixnay on the hombre and Ignition. They have always been pop-punk (like ramones was sometimes, LIKE EVEN BAD RELIGION IS SOMETIMES), but hey... the lyrics are pretty damn punk-good, and yes, rise and fall for me is pretty like American Idiot, but is offspring after all. Let's face this, Offspring is back, maybe not HUGE, but will be good enough

 

[squashbucket70]

SCEW POP-PUNK. LET'S GO SKA! WOOOT!

 

[SketchaMPM]

I'm going to agree with the majority that this is a great record. It's just a shame that most of its weaknesses come from Bob Rock's ugly production styles.

My new addictions are "You're Gonna Go Far Kid", "Stuff Is Messed Up", "Trust In You" and "A Lot Like Me", the later of which reminds me of a new-age "Gone Away".

If you like The Offspring, you'll love this album. They haven't let us down in 25 years and I hope they keep it up. If you never liked them much, however, look away. This album isn't for you.

 

[a_rockin_penguin]

This definitely shouldn't have been written by a Bob Rock hater. Listen to the fact that it is The Offspring first, then minor production cues second. I really feel that this is a solid album. I barely felt Rock's influence, as it felt like classic Offspring with an updated twist in some respects. Sure, a couple songs sounded Green Day-ish, but Green Day is one of my favorites as well, so I'm not complaining.

Why is everyone so hard on Bob Rock? Sure he goofed with Metallica's St. Anger, but everything else he worked on with those guys was great. Black Album, anyone? Meh. I guess some people just have to find something to whine about. Strike Bob Rock's name from your memory banks and listen to this album if you don't like him. If you can't do that, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[cartf3]

going up this was at least atop my favorite bands and i think that they should have stop at americana it is time to bow out. no i am not say the new album is bad but comparied to the old it just does not hold a candle anymore. but i still love my noodle's ndm ibanez guitar.

 

[kobeskillz]

I agree with the Rock statement and though its sad that times have change I have come to terms that the Offspring have to change with those times. This ain't 94' and this ain't Smash that appeals to that age group. I love the 1st half and i'm mixed on the 2nd half. 2nd half to much Green Day and 1st is all Offspring baby. Rock had something to do with that i'm sure.

All in all a great CD from a great So Cal band : )

 

[bikitybam]

Did anybody proofread this?

 

[dubi187]

This album is the opposite of Americana. This time the single rocks and rest of the album sucks.

You can download hammerhead for free on their website and you should probably stop there. Trust in you aint bad either though.

Unfortunately nothing can be kick ass forever. Metallica, Offspring, and The Simpsons used to be some of my favorite things and now they've fallen into a pit of mediocrity.

I recommend checking out classic offspring - their self titled album, ignition, and smash.

 

[mumbo2jumbo55]

i liked the album

 

[Stainkovic]

Man you are off your head! If The Offspring are so bad why did they headline Download? Just because you hate their producer is no reason for saying they've "fallen".

 

[Shart1780]

Hammerhead was better when Bad Religion sang it 15 years ago

 

[legacyAccount]

Well they have the album on imeem and I listened to it last week and was un-impressed. It's ok but definitely not worth buying because I would never listen to it.

 

[My_Name_Is_Jonas_1]

Overall, it's a good album.

Favorites:
Half-Truism
Hammerhead
A Lot Like Me
Takes Me Nowhere
Stuff Is Messed Up

 

[legacyAccount]

dude, what the hell is wrong with you? what did bob rock rape you in producer school? because unless he did, how can you hate someone with a "white hot passion"

did he steal your baby or something?

and st. anger wasn't crap, METALLICA chose to go in a different direction as a collaborative effort if you'd watched the some kind of monster dvd you'd realize that Kirk was bored with the way they were doing music if anything the ones offspring should be running away from is YOU.

the offspring have been doing music since 1984 and 8 albums later of course your gonna wanna do something different, ANYTHING otherwise your not making music, your regurgitating your old stuff again

 

[zappery]

I agree with this review. I have been a fan of The Offspring since 1994. The first thought that hit me while listening to the album for the first time was that it was a total Green Day rip off. Not only the obvious one "Rise and Fall", but also tracks such as "Nothingtown", "Kristy" (which is Offsprings version of "Time of your Life" - same chord progression and all). Also the track "Fix You" if you pay attention is a rip off of Green Day's "Wake me up when september ends".

This is not a bad record, but it's not good at all either. In my opinion by far the worst album of theirs and a bit embarrasing. Personally I think this is the death of the offspring.

 

[heyyoudvd]

It really does sound like the band ripped off Green Day. The trademark intense Offspring sound is mostly absent from this album and instead, it's a lot softer and poppier. I hear American Idiot influences all over the album.

Even the album cover seems to have been lifted from Green Day. Look at the colour scheme.

[image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Greenday_americanidiot.png] vs [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/The_Offspring_-_Rise_and_Fall%2C_Rage_and_Grace.jpg]


It's an enjoyable album most of the way through with very few tracks that I'd deem skip-worthy, but on the same note, it doesn't have any real standouts either. The album seems far too safe and forgettable. It has fewer weak points than Splinter, for example, but the best songs on the album aren't nearly as good as Splinter's best. While the songs are pretty enjoyable, I feel like I've heard this all before. The band is treading on ground that has all been covered already (either by themselves, by Green Day, or by other such bands). This album feels like it'll wear thin fast.

 

[metalgearkirby]

Its better than splinter, but I agree with the reviewer, Bob Rock sucks. This album isn't their best, but it isnt their worst. Hopefully, their next album will be better and not produced by Rock.

 

[CheesePleaseRimshot]

Someone needs to kill Bob Rock. Like now.

Look what he did to Metallica. And now The Offspring?

It's gone too ****ing far.

 

[bigbrown69]

bob rock produced metallica's black album.. but i still hate him.

 

[legacyAccount]

Someone needs to remind the reviewer that Bob Rock simply just MIXES the songs. I believe you are putting to much faith, into hating him for an unjustified reason. the 'usual licks, and familiar riffs etc' - The band writes the music man, thats their fault, plain and simple, sure Bob Rock may be an ass, but all he does is mix, i think your putting way too much blame on him, when its just the guys writing the same old stuff. Having said that id give this about a 7.5/8 aswell. I really like some songs on there, the old feel with a modern twist, but there's way too many ripoffs on there. WTF is up with half truism soundind like Helena by MCR, and your gunna go far kid, having a panic @ the disco sound. WEIRD

 

[RAFTAK]

Someone needs to remind the reviewer that Bob Rock simply just MIXES the songs. I believe you are putting to much faith, into hating him for an unjustified reason. the 'usual licks, and familiar riffs etc' - The band writes the music man, thats their fault, plain and simple, sure Bob Rock may be an ass, but all he does is mix, i think your putting way too much blame on him, when its just the guys writing the same old stuff. Having said that id give this about a 7.5/8 aswell. I really like some songs on there, the old feel with a modern twist, but there's way too many ripoffs on there. WTF is up with half truism soundind like Helena by MCR, and your gunna go far kid, having a panic @ the disco sound. WEIRD

You're an idiot. Do you know even know what a producer does? Or are you throwing out random bs to defend him because you like some other crappy album he's produced and would feel better blaming the band?

And since you couldn't get two brain cells to connect before "You're Gonna Go Far Kid" ended, I'll explain it to you. It's a parody song. Like "Pretty Fly For A White Guy".

 

[parad0rn]

sweet album; great songs, nice album name, shitty cover though.

 

[conatonc]

Did anybody proofread this?

Or fact-check it, for that matter. Smash may have been The Offspring's breathrough album, but it was not their major-label debut. That album was on Epitaph Records, and it wasn't until after the huge success of that album that the band jumped ship and signed with Columbia, making Ixnay on the Hombre their first major-label album.

Overall, though, this is a listenable album. I really like "You're Gonna Go Far, Kid" and yes, "Kristy Are You Doing Okay" is actually a passable power ballad.

 

[Clinton.1984]

"sweet album; great songs, nice album name, shitty cover though."

Thanks for making a new acct, posting, and bumping this thread, douche ****er.

 

[kobeskillz]

Now that some time has passed and i've listened to this album a lot of times my opinion still stands.

1st half is great and 2nd half loses it. The singles have staying power though and are still played a lot on KROQ in LA.

Anyhow, The Offspring have always been much much beter than Green Day IMO and one of my fav bands growing up.

 

[brnbasler]

The Offspring have sucked since they left Epitaph. Their Smash album was crazy successful, which was unexpected. All of a sudden they realize they can have alot more money by being on a major label and they sell out to the max. I don't care about a band going to a major label as long as their music stays good. The Offspring have gotten progressively worse.

 

[Don-Mullet]

Really? I don't see them getting worse, outside of Conspiracy of One, which sucked hard, I think they've been getting better. I still haven't listened to this newer CD a whole lot but what I heard wasn't bad and Splinter was pretty awesome. I don't think they're Epitaph stuff was all that amazing, it was solid stuff but not mind blowing.

 

[KrazyJ1098]

I don't know. I think Ignition was a pretty damn good album. Ixnay is still my favorite of theirs.

I do agree with the sentiment on Americana, the singles blew hard but the rest of the album kicked ass.

 

[theHxCLemming]

i honestly, don't know how anyone is saying that any one offspring album is bad. i love all of them, they are all good in their respective ways. so stfu. you are all wrong

 

[StrangerXIII]

This review is nothing but hate toward Bob Rock.
I have no strong feelings about the guy, and dont care for Metallica so dont care about St. Anger. The album is good, not their best, but good. It lasted me two weeks straight when i was on holiday when it first came out, and I still listen to it often.

Going to see them in August, and i cant wait.

 

[legacyAccount]

I thought that Rise And Fall, Rage And Grace was a great album, definitely worth a purchase. The album might not be another Ixnay On The Hombre or Smash, but is easily the most solid release since Americana, if not being better than Americana, and being the best since Ixnay.

 

[KaleTheRevolution]

Rise and Fall wasnt an aweful song but your right about its resemblence to green day. My favourite song in the album is Your Gonna Go Far kid.