The odd hatred of Dark Souls 2

[ChaosWarrior01]

I have played all three of the Souls games, and one thing above all others perplexes me. Why do so many people not like Dark Souls 2 compared to 1? I mean yes it is linear, yes it has bosses become enemies later on, yes it reuses boss ideas and concepts from the previous game, but all those same complaints could be leveled at Dark Souls 1!

Is it because it is easier? News flash everyone, but game companies need new blood, and you can't expect each game in a series to get progressively harder! Eventually an easier game will come along to allow a lower point of entry, and also remember that it might just be because of all your experience with the previous games that you find this one easier.

Also to touch upon the bosses, yes I think overall they were easier, but at least unlike Dark Souls 1 a number of the major ones(i.e. the required ones) aren't directly ripped off from Demon's Souls.

I don't mean to sound like a complainer, but the hate that people have towards Dark Souls 2 is just weird to me looking at the series as a whole.

 

[IRRELEVANT4LYFE]

It's way too easy. I sucked at both Dark souls 1 and Demons souls but I sped right through Dark Souls 2. It definitely dumbed down. Don't forget that fast travel either. I mean you get it right at the start, how lame is that?

 

[ChaosWarrior01]

It's way too easy. I sucked at both Dark souls 1 and Demons souls but I sped right through Dark Souls 2. It definitely dumbed down. Don't forget that fast travel either. I mean you get it right at the start, how lame is that?

They stated that they wanted the game to be more accessible though. Also I don't see how fast travel from the start is a bad thing, you only can go back to previous bonfires.

 

[IRRELEVANT4LYFE]

It's way too easy. I sucked at both Dark souls 1 and Demons souls but I sped right through Dark Souls 2. It definitely dumbed down. Don't forget that fast travel either. I mean you get it right at the start, how lame is that?

They stated that they wanted the game to be more accessible though. Also I don't see how fast travel from the start is a bad thing, you only can go back to previous bonfires.

More accessible is code word for attract casuals i.e get more sales because we're greedy pigs looking for more money.

 

[ChaosWarrior01]

It's way too easy. I sucked at both Dark souls 1 and Demons souls but I sped right through Dark Souls 2. It definitely dumbed down. Don't forget that fast travel either. I mean you get it right at the start, how lame is that?

They stated that they wanted the game to be more accessible though. Also I don't see how fast travel from the start is a bad thing, you only can go back to previous bonfires.

More accessible is code word for attract casuals i.e get more sales because we're greedy pigs looking for more money.

So it's a bad thing for more people to be able to enjoy a game?

 

[IRRELEVANT4LYFE]

They stated that they wanted the game to be more accessible though. Also I don't see how fast travel from the start is a bad thing, you only can go back to previous bonfires.

More accessible is code word for attract casuals i.e get more sales because we're greedy pigs looking for more money.

So it's a bad thing for more people to be able to enjoy a game?

It's a bad thing when developers dumb their game down to make more money from idiots who can't git gud. It's pathetic.

 

[ChaosWarrior01]

More accessible is code word for attract casuals i.e get more sales because we're greedy pigs looking for more money.

So it's a bad thing for more people to be able to enjoy a game?

It's a bad thing when developers dumb their game down to make more money from idiots who can't git gud. It's pathetic.

So providing a lower entry level of skill is considered dumbing down? I fail to see how that makes sense.

 

[kill4money213]

Some bosses in the game were just plain lazy and there as to pad out the game whereas the original game never had that feel to it.
Two glaring examples being fucking Twin Dragonriders and lets not forget: Magus and the Congregation. There's a bunch others like the Covetous Demon, Skelton lords, and the Belfry Gargoyles. A good chunk of the bosses also just felt unoriginal as they were basically the same kind of enemy from prior Souls games, the Gargoyles were... well.. the Gargoyles, Old Iron King was the Dragon God, Najika was Quelaag, and so on. The game was more about quantity of bosses in comparison to quality.
This can all probably be attributed to the fact that the FromSoftware B-team was making the game as Miyazaki didn't do anything in this game.

Now, it's not to say it was a bad game. Old Dragonslayer isn't what I consider to be lazy as the boss fight was an old favorite from the 1st game. And of course, there were definitely a few good bosses. Lost Sinner, Smelter Demon, and even the Pursuer being some of them. The online, too, is better overall now that (for the most part) everything is balanced and Soul Memory is fixed.
But of course, you should also probably take in mind that for most Dark Souls 1 is what got people into the series and as a result it'll just be their favorite because everything was so new.

 

[ChaosWarrior01]

But of course, you should also probably take in mind that for most Dark Souls 1 is what got people into the series and as a result it'll just be their favorite because everything was so new.

That is the thing that bugs me the most though. If you start with Dark Souls 1 then everything is fine, but if you go from Demon's to Dark then you'll notice a lot of similarities that can make it feel less creative then it otherwise might be. I mean Solaire is basically Ostrava, and Gwin is Allant. Nito is basically Leachmonger in design just with skeletons instead of leaches, and the Gargoyles have been in all three, so their a legacy fight at this point. That and Dark Souls 1 isn't free of copy pasting bosses. The Asylum Demon, Stray Demon, and Demon Firesage are exactly the same in design, and the Taraus Demon is basically a bull themed version of the Asylum Demon!

I not saying Dark Souls 2 is perfect, but I just wish everyone would lay off it since almost every single complaint people have against it are able to be thrown at Dark Souls 1 as well. I just feel like Dark Souls 2, in many ways, is a step up from 1, so I want it to be praised for it's successes (of which is has many) rather than attacked for it's weaknesses (Many of which have been a problem with the Souls series since Dark Souls 1).

 

[IgglooV2]

I am playing through the game for a third time right now, the first playing through Scholar of the First Sin, and I really think that it is an excellent, under appreciated game, even if it happens to be the worst in the series.

I think Scholar of the First Sin addresses some of the complaints about the original launch edition, with better enemy placement etc. It's no longer rush to get Heide Sword and use that for half the game. It has its own exploits and quirks, but it's a damn good game and enormous in terms of overall content.

Bloodborne to me really moved the series forward from a pure combat perspective, but I miss the sheer variety of weapons and armor and covenants in Dark Souls 1 and 2.

 

[-Spike--]

It's way too easy. I sucked at both Dark souls 1 and Demons souls but I sped right through Dark Souls 2. It definitely dumbed down. Don't forget that fast travel either. I mean you get it right at the start, how lame is that?

Actually Miyazaki has said that he was a fan of the fast travel and is going to keep it for DS3.

 

[Lightning23]

I don't get the hate for ds2, and I'm so sick of hearing how it's to easy. It's easy to most of us because we've already played 2 games exactly like it, you know exactly what to look for. Give this game to someone with no souls experience and see how "easy" ds2 is.

 

[ninjarealist]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

 

[Lightning23]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

Titanite availibility was definately an improvement in 2, farming darwraiths for hours and hours to get extremely rare drops in ds1 was really annoying after a while. I hope ascetics make a return as well as it gave you the ability to play harder versions of areas you actually like.

 

[ChaosWarrior01]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

I don't think it's fair to say that the lore sucks since it is just an expansion on the lore of Dark Souls 1. After all it is currently the only true sequel in the franchise, so having it build upon the lore of the previous game isn't so bad in my personal opinion.

 

[ninjarealist]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

I don't think it's fair to say that the lore sucks since it is just an expansion on the lore of Dark Souls 1. After all it is currently the only true sequel in the franchise, so having it build upon the lore of the previous game isn't so bad in my personal opinion.

It may be an expansion, and I have no problem with that, but I just don't think the characters and dialogue are nearly as good as the characters in DKS1 and Demon's Souls or even Bloodborne.

 

[ChaosWarrior01]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

I don't think it's fair to say that the lore sucks since it is just an expansion on the lore of Dark Souls 1. After all it is currently the only true sequel in the franchise, so having it build upon the lore of the previous game isn't so bad in my personal opinion.

It may be an expansion, and I have no problem with that, but I just don't think the characters and dialogue are nearly as good as the characters in DKS1 and Demon's Souls or even Bloodborne.

Well I like them, and I'm just glad that when I see them I don't automatically think of a character from Demon's like in Dark Souls 1

 

[ninjarealist]

I don't think it's fair to say that the lore sucks since it is just an expansion on the lore of Dark Souls 1. After all it is currently the only true sequel in the franchise, so having it build upon the lore of the previous game isn't so bad in my personal opinion.

It may be an expansion, and I have no problem with that, but I just don't think the characters and dialogue are nearly as good as the characters in DKS1 and Demon's Souls or even Bloodborne.

Well I like them, and I'm just glad that when I see them I don't automatically think of a character from Demon's like in Dark Souls 1

My problem with the DKS2 NPCs is that, first and foremost, they talk way too much. They constantly monologue in a way that feels very unnatural, unlike the usually brief NPCs in the first two Souls games. And also they seemed, by and large, too sane. All of the Souls games take place in settings that can accurately be described as a living hell. I think the insane and often borderline incoherent NPCs in the first two Souls games did a great job of reflecting this. By contrast, the DKS2 NPCs are all pretty stoic and don't really reflect the horror of their surroundings.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[ChaosWarrior01]

It may be an expansion, and I have no problem with that, but I just don't think the characters and dialogue are nearly as good as the characters in DKS1 and Demon's Souls or even Bloodborne.

Well I like them, and I'm just glad that when I see them I don't automatically think of a character from Demon's like in Dark Souls 1

My problem with the DKS2 NPCs is that, first and foremost, they talk way too much. They constantly monologue in a way that feels very unnatural, unlike the usually brief NPCs in the first two Souls games. And also they seemed, by and large, too sane. All of the Souls games take place in settings that can accurately be described as a living hell. I think the insane and often borderline incoherent NPCs in the first two Souls games did a great job of reflecting this. By contrast, the DKS2 NPCs are all pretty stoic and don't really reflect the horror of their surroundings.

But that's just my opinion.

At the very least they acknowledge other NPC's. I still can't tell how in the world Solaire and the Onion Knight (Can't recall his name) don't see each other in Anor Londo. I can buy monologues what with everyone trying to keep their sense of self, but not the idea that no one in Lordran ever ran into anyone they didn't plan to meet aside from Crestfallen.

 

[-Spike--]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

Titanite availibility was definately an improvement in 2, farming darwraiths for hours and hours to get extremely rare drops in ds1 was really annoying after a while. I hope ascetics make a return as well as it gave you the ability to play harder versions of areas you actually like.

Fast travel and Soul Vessels are apparently going to make a return. Bonfire Ascetics, however, will not. I can kind of see why to be honest, it just led to farming easy bosses, like the Giant Lord for example.

 

[Lightning23]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

Titanite availibility was definately an improvement in 2, farming darwraiths for hours and hours to get extremely rare drops in ds1 was really annoying after a while. I hope ascetics make a return as well as it gave you the ability to play harder versions of areas you actually like.

Fast travel and Soul Vessels are apparently going to make a return. Bonfire Ascetics, however, will not. I can kind of see why to be honest, it just led to farming easy bosses, like the Giant Lord for example.

Is soul memory returning?

 

[-Spike--]

No, matchmaking will be based on Soul Level.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/09/09/new-dark-souls-3-info-sheds-light-on-magic-multiplayer-more

 

[ninjarealist]

There is nothing wrong with having fast travel from the start. This and a lot of other innovations in DKS2 (bonfire ascetics, soul vessels, purchasable titanite) were great choices that made the game less tedious and should really be included in DKS3.

The main problems with DKS2 are that, relative to the other Souls games, the level design sucks, the lore sucks, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the bosses are either too easy or poorly designed (see Ancient Dragon, Demon of Song).

With that said, I really like DKS2. It's the Souls game I play the most, because the PvP is just so much better than in the other two Souls games.

Titanite availibility was definately an improvement in 2, farming darwraiths for hours and hours to get extremely rare drops in ds1 was really annoying after a while. I hope ascetics make a return as well as it gave you the ability to play harder versions of areas you actually like.

Fast travel and Soul Vessels are apparently going to make a return. Bonfire Ascetics, however, will not. I can kind of see why to be honest, it just led to farming easy bosses, like the Giant Lord for example.

I think that easy farming is the best part of DKS2. Making farming tedious and time-consuming just makes DKS1 like every other RPG.

 

[xJoshox]

Here's the cool thing about Dark Souls 2. The framerate, the graphics, the environments, the fact that we got another Dark Souls game at all. I mean, it doesn't have to be anyone's favorite but i'm playing Scholar of the First Sin right now after beating all the other games including Bloodborne. I'm having a blast, it might be my least favorite, but my least favorite of my favorite games i've ever played. It's still pretty awesome. Plus it's cool that Dark Souls 2 invited more people into the community. When these people want more of a challenge, they will jump into Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodborne. Which is awesome because that will keep From Software relevent. Souls fans shouldn't be fighting among themselves, we should just be glad that some developers are still pushing out real games.

 

[justin7601]

I agree. I think its wierd and even with Souls 3 people STILL werent happy about the whole lack of interconnecting maps. I think its a common case of nostalgia and the whole remembering something to be better than it was, or just better simply because its a nostalgic memory. Thats why sequels are "never as good" people are expecting it to have the same feeling of freshness or allure yet it never does simply because its no longer the first.

Playing DkS3 I actually have to say theres a lot from the second game I miss, like the wide range of different environments with their own themes that outstreches wide and far. The interconnecting thing is interesting and all, but I for one do not require a game has everything connecting to itself in map design, as you progress and get stronger its necessary in a sense, to traverse new lands. I dont see the joy in being halfway through then realizing your back at the original area with enemies 30 levels below you and complete fodder, I mean once your done with an area your done, nothing left for you so no point in it all I think.

I sunk 200+ hours into Scholar of First Sin on Xbox One, and had three characters, one of which I got to like level 300 with, farmed souls on that giant memory place, had bonfire level capped at 99, lol. But alas, people always despise the second game simply because its different yet trying new things and taking risks is a good thing, would have sucked if it was the same as the first.

 

[SocraTetresGAME]

Personally, (IMHO DISCLAIMER) I think it all comes down to this: Both game have their super fanboys that end up hating on the differences. Really this sort of thing happens with any fandom; it's human nature. Dark Souls is a great series and attracted a huge fandom, so no matter where you go you'll find some of these people. My only problems with DS2 is the slight repetitiveness with humanoid bosses (there needed more variety) and ridiculous tracking for overhead strikes from enemies (but this can be adjusted too).

The two games have drastically different in-game physics, the biggest example being fall damage and i-frames, and anyone who starts in one game and goes to another gets thrown off by this. But this can be adapted to as well. For a newbie, I seriously doubt DS2 is going to feel like it has lower barrier to entry, but even if we can objectively prove that that's the case, that is a GOOD thing! Videogames are expensive to make. Lower barrier to entry means more fans, which means more revenue from the Intellectual Property, which means MORE DARK SOULS GAMES! If all game developers said "I'm going to make the game I want, and who cares if anyone buys it or likes it" we'd have no games ever. And anyone who pays attention can tell there are serious changes between even Demon Souls and Dark Souls 1 to make it accessible and enjoyable from the start.

In the end, I think part of this is the rage inherent with playing the game results in lots of (pardon my French) "Butt-hurt", and, for the rage-y fanboys who can't accept different games are different even if they're in the same Intellectual Property, they will get even more butt-hurt.

Some people say X was too easy or X was too hard. Meh. With every dark souls game we play people get more literate with how this unique model of action RPG works and for what to look. Many people who dedicated themselves to DS1 became very literate in the game's design and how it creates difficulty. This makes playing future DS games easier.

My rule of thumb, if you love the series, you'll learn the game. I'll admit, I'm a late-comer to this game series. Demons Souls came under my radar, and DS1 & 2 release while I was at university and didn't have time for games (minus the semester I spent on Skyrim). I became interested from watching playthroughs and lore channels on youtube. I started on Bloodborne, and having jumped from that game to DS3, having to learn to play defensively, and slowly, while desperately searching for those items that allow more aggressive gameplay is making for a great first playthrough for me! I'm not going to get butt-burt over not having super aggressive healing. Most of us fans like all the games, because they're good games. And having a favorite doesn't prevent us from seeing the positives and negatives in each and liking them anyway.

When I play games, I like to evaluate them from a philosophic perspective. The whole Dark Souls series is great for this, and even specific mechanics in each game inform the philosophic ideas that THAT game is trying to describe. Hell, even the character stats screen is important to the philosophic messages in DS3. So I'm glad the gameplay and the mechanics are varied between each new release!

... That turned into a bit of a rant XD

 

[Classicnerd]

I got playing DS2 earlier this year, and I really like it.
-well, parts of it anyways.

I do have to admit that the locations can be rather basic, graphically and otherwise. So it is kinda dated.

But still. Fun to play. And very unique and interesting in many ways, which makes up for the lack of flashy graphics.

 

[Reapist]

I tried all 3 Dark Souls and hate 2. Because of the move set and animation of the fights. It flat out sux for me. Three is just fine though. One was great, three may be great. I've only been into it four days and only level 72 at this point. More to come.