OK, this is going to be my last response in this discussion, as it has run its course, and it isn't going anywhere. I must add that I was misled into thinking that this argument was actually about the backstory itself, and not a vehicle for general polemics against NT under false pretenses.
No, I'm disagreeing with the fact that you disconnect backstory from storytelling. I believe everything having to do with a story falls under the realm of storytelling. Even through previews and teasers before the game and the story itself actually come out, and almost especially so, because like it or not you're setting the tone for what the audience is expecting this game to be.
The backstory is a segment of the story. It is only related to storytelling in the manner in which it is conveyed to the audience by the producers of the work. Press releases are not storytelling, neither are blog posts on development, and neither are blurbs on the back of a game case. All story is connected to storytelling in the sense that story is contingent on storytelling to exist
qua story, and storytelling does require a story to tell. However, they are disconnected in the sense that one is a method, while one is the substance revealed by that method; the same story can be told in different ways if different storytelling methods are used. What we were given was the substance of the story, the bare facts, but we don't know how this story will be presented canonically. So yes, they are not connected in the sense that you were asserting. Your belief is a definitional fallacy, since it fails to meaningfully distinguish between the terms "story" and "storytelling."
Again, this was an extremely bad choice to infodump this kind of information of all things first and reflects poorly at both NT and Capcom.
So says you. I'd say most people without a chip on their shoulder regarding the game have no problem with the tidbits we were given, and either find them innocuous or simply unimportant to their perception of the game.
Again, this is still under the assumption that the story isn't a cliched grimdark mess, which from everything we have seen so far is a bold assumption.
Again, so says you. It seems that you have revealed your agenda here, and you have been begging the question this whole time, which is why I see no point in continuing beyond this.
"And I think NT and Capcom are beyond caring what assumptions people are going to make about this game, because they are so disconnected from reality that they cannot bear the responsibility anymore. No matter what they release, it will be met by a negative reaction by fans and negative spin of the actual facts."
Then they are idiots and that's a pathetic kind of attitude to have. It's also completely not true and makes me wonder if they know the slightest thing about PR or handling a fanbase.
Right, yeah, this is exactly my point.
To give you an example about how a good company with capable individuals handles something like this, do you remember the development process of Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Both Deus Ex: HR and DmC were extremely controversial reboots from their announcement and both games were met with a huge, huge backlash of angry fans of the older games. Everyone was up in arms that Human Revolution was going to "ruin Deus Ex forever", and when details starting coming out about how the game would have many staples of the modern day FPS (regenerating health and an emphasis on action). How did Eidos handle it? They ignored the hate and pretended it didn't exist (not in the elitist way of thinking their game was going to be the best thing since sliced bread, but in the humble way of continuing to put on a metaphorical smile and keeping up with the fans). They continued to go through painstaking efforts in the midst of the insane amount of criticism this game was getting to prove to the butthurt, irrational fans that the license was in good hands and that they knew what made the original Deus Ex so widely praised and that they were making a good game. It took a long, long time, but Eidos remained steadfast and never lost their composure. Eventually the haters starting dwindling, doubts started dissipating, and people started coming around.
First of all, let me just say, Eidos and Capcom, Deus Ex and DMC are not comparable. Also, DmC is not a reboot. Thirdly, that is exactly what Capcom has done with DmC and why they continue to ignore people who are dedicated to disliking this game regardless of what they do. It is a prudent approach that anyone in their position would emulate. Fourthly, I'm sure there are still butthurt fanboys out there that hate HR with every fiber of their being. Fifthly, what you describe is most likely what will happen in the end, with the haters dwindling and dying down, and to assume that it won't is just another example of begging the question.
And in the end, you know what? The fans didn't really want to hate a new Deus Ex game. They were angry because they were scared it was going to go against everything that made the original series a success and that this was just a cheap cash-in on the namebrand. Once they realized that these developers genuinely cared about the past iterations of the series and wanted to do right by the fans, they weren't angry anymore. Look how great that game did and look how much its revered by those same people who spat on the very concept of it. That's the most basic, fundamental rule of handling a fanbase: you can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar. Empathy goes a long, long way.
You are presenting a generalized perception of what went on in the fanbase to try and prove a point. Where is the data? Why should I trust this narrative you are spinning over any other interpretation? Did you interview a representative sample of fans? And again, you seem to be precluding this fanbase reconciliation from happening in DmC's case (no doubt because of your prodigious insight into the hivemind of the fanbase). As for the bolded, apparently fans seem to think empathy is a one way street. It isn't.
I feel like its almost an insult to Eidos to compare them to the trainwreck that has been the development of DmC. Everything that I have said about Eidos in the above paragraph holds the complete opposite to Ninja Theory handling DmC's reboot. They consistently have insulted the franchise, lashed out at the fans who were upset, and just displayed an overwhelming sense of incompetence and a profound sense of being out of touch with why DMC was successful in the first place. It has nothing to do with the fact that its a reboot of Devil May Cry, and everything to do with the developers themselves. They deserve every bit of the hate they are getting for this. It is entirely their fault. If you told a company like Eidos to go make a DMC reboot, I guarantee you that by this same point in the development process, the haters would be a minority.
If you feel insulted, then you need to deal with your clear, deep seated bias against DmC. Speaking in absolutes and generalizations, relying on assumptions and unsupported foregone conclusions, it is no wonder you feel disgust at the thought of comparing the two. So yeah, I understand that this is your opinion and your perception of NT, but it is entirely beside the point of the original topic of discussion, and it is just that -- your personal opinion clearly colored by the nebulous malevolence arbitrarily attributed to NT simply because they are NT. Like I said, seeing things that aren't there. And btw, you can't guarantee me anything about Eidos rebooting DMC, because you don't work at Eidos, know the outcome of decisions that were never made, and even if you did, don't have any way of determining or influencing the sentiments of thousands of people. I can just as easily guarantee that if PG was approached to do the reboot, the game would be universally panned as a failure. (Also, the haters are in the minority at this moment, so there's that too).
IAbsolutely, I agree with you. But there's a way to tastefully accomplish this without making your audience immediately label the character with a negative stigma, even in a brief backstory synopsis like this. Or, I dunno, old Dante never had a father figure, his brother tries to kill him, and his mother died in front of his eyes and he totally plays against the trope. Just saying
![[face_tongue]](https://cdn.statically.io/img/www.ignboards.com/styles/ign/ign/smilies/classic/stickouttongue.gif "Stick Out Tongue [face_tongue]")
Dante did not play against the trope just because his demeanor is different. He does have inner turmoil, and he is pretty cynical and world weary, at least in DMC1. He's also out to avenge his mother, lone ranger style, and so on.
But he is, though. He's being - deliberately or not - painted in the audiences' heads as being victimized. In the first trailer he's strung up in chains being interrogated. In the backstory it talks about how he was tortured growing up.
Being victimized and being a tortured soul are different. Having once been a victim is meant to help Dino connect to the plight of all the people who are oppressed by the demons, because he experienced it firsthand. My point was that he is not depicted as someone who laments his fate and just feels sorry for himself, and cuts or drinks to make the pain go away. He seems fairly normal, so far, given the way he grew up. Granted we don't have much to go on, but it is definitely too early to say that he is a tortured soul, at least moreso than the twins were in the old series.
Again in the link above, "a hatred of demons in particular, despite being half-demon himself."
Hatred of your victimizers is not ennui or self-loathing. He hates demons even though he himself is half-demon, indicating that he feels little to no kinship with them, despite his power coming in part from them. And again, I'm using the original Dante as a baseline here. He is no worse in this regard than old Dante, but I also don't expect him to skip down the street whistling a cheerful tune.
That's really the point I'm trying to make in this, the audience has little to go on about how to define Dante's character and they place a much bigger emphasis on what little they have heard to characterize him. The next time we see the character in a preview/trailer/etc, we already will subconsciously associate those qualities with him. If there is a scene with Dante interacting with another character in the next trailer, the audience will automatically fill in the blanks behind his actions ("He never smiles and seems pretty angry in this scene, I guess he's turned out this way because of his rough childhood"). Worse yet is if there is a scene in a future trailer where Dante has a moment of weakness or vulnerability, and because of the context the audience has had thus far they start to infer the tone of the game "Geez, this is really dark and emo, it seems like all this game is about is just angst and brooding", even if the rest of the game isn't even like that. It could take a really powerful, well done dramatic moment of desperation and self realization in the game and completely ruin it because the audience will just roll their eyes "here we go with the emo **** again".
If the audience doesn't have enough to go on, then it is their responsibility to withhold their judgment of the situation until they are more completely informed. NT is not responsible for every tangential assumption brought up by what they release to the public. So, if the audience is going to make those assumptions, there is really nothing NT or anyone else can do to stop them. As for myself, I am content to have some information now, rather than having to wait for it all later.
But I'm kind of doubtful they will, they probably have no idea that this is even happening right now.
They do know, because of the comments on CU, but they also know that out of 100 criticisms, only maybe 1 is actually worth listening to, because most of the people who complain are committed to a negative view of the game regardless of what gets released. Unfortunately, that is the result of overloading the forums with vapid, redundant, complaints and unrealistic ultimatums.
It has nothing to do with being reasonable or not. You have to understand that as human beings we love order and we don't like the unknown. That's why we love to put labels on everything as quickly as we can. People, movies, games, it doesn't matter. That's why it's probably important for NT to have the only information story elements they've released over the past two years to not paint this rebellious angsty tone over the story, unless that's the intention they are going for.
Bringing human nature in is bordering on the naturalistic fallacy. Just because people act one way doesn't mean they should or that attitude should be pandered to. But, let's say humans do dislike the unknown, how can you then paint any revelation of concrete information as negative? According to your logic, any information, even horrible news, is a good thing. Anyway, my point was just that NT cannot be expected to accommodate the demands of people who have proven themselves unreasonable in their expectations. If some fans want oral sex and two bars of solid gold to come with their game, they are being unreasonable and thus are not worth dignifying with attention. If someone has already decided that the game is going to be a horrible "trainwreck," or that assuming it will be good is "bold," as you have, then of course they are going to view anything released about the game negatively to confirm the conclusion they have already reached. To people like that, who have already decided what the end product is going to be, there is little point in attempting to change their minds, because their minds have been made up.
Also, you bring up a good point, who exactly is their target audience anyway? I honestly can't say for certainty anymore who they're pandering this to.
Their target audience is Western gamers in general. They are trying to broaden the appeal of the game by making it less Japanesey, to convince people who were not fans of DMC before or were hesitant because of how elite and niche the series was, to give it a try. You can read about
Capcom's marketing strategies on their business website, especially the Development Strategy. The entire purpose is to make it more generic and more accessible and more mainstream, to expand the existing fanbase to maximize the profitability of the franchise worldwide. Of course, this necessarily means that the interests of the hardcore minority are being selected against by the Capcom execs, but that's a tradeoff I'm sure they are willing to accept.
Again, like Deus Ex, I don't really want to hate a new DMC game. I really don't, it's been like five years since one has come out. I don't think anyone really does, and it's sad because I don't think anyone is really opposed to the concept of a DMC reboot. But it's been a year and a half and nothing has changed from my initial perception and reaction of this game, in fact it's only solidified it more.
You are very good at doing what you don't want to do. Usually, when I don't want to do something and am not under some kind of duress and don't see any conflict between my wants and what is in my best interest, I don't do that thing I don't want to do. If you feel that you simply can't get excited about the game, I could understand that, but you seem pretty dedicated to your position, despite your protest.
Anyway, that's all I have to say. This post is too long.
