Apr 21, 2010
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68
So a lot of us here are fans of electronic music and I was curious, do you find that electronic music has the same shelf life as other genres of music for you? For example, I'll find myself going back to old-school classics like Pulp, The Replacements, Blur and they still sound as great now as when I first heard them.

But electronic music gets a little more dicey for me. I cant say that Underworld or Superpitcher or Trentemoller sound as fresh now as they did back in the day, but Tim Hecker and The Field always go down smooth. It seems to me that electronic music just gets dated faster.

So I was curious if the rest of you electronic guys feel the same way. Or to you still dig the Orb the same after all these years?
 

CrAzY_A_69

Star
Mar 29, 2002
42,662
121
I would definitely say some electronic music can become dated incredibly fast, but I think that has more to do with technology evolving at such a rapid rate. However, there are some artists that seem to stand the test of time regardless of the change in sound. Two more prominent examples that immediately come to mind are Boards of Canada and Kraftwerk.
 

NoelEatingSang

Almost Not a Noob
Jan 8, 2010
478
66
There are a few certain tones that I enjoy from my electronic music, and I can find of them across multiple eras. So there will always be those classic albums that remain good for years. But I can see why it seems like it has a short shelf life. Part of it probably has to do with the rapid production pace of some artists. A lot of electronic artists are too prolific for their own good, and oftentimes it hurts the quality and depth of the music.
 

AvocadoGenesis

I'm a G...CB President
Dec 17, 2002
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Like has been said, it really depends on the music. A lot of artists seem to be experimenting at rapid pace, so it's no surprise that some electronic music seems dated or simply not as impressive as when it was released. Personally, the electronic music that I enjoy, I tend to enjoy years later.
 
Apr 21, 2010
495
68
Personally, the electronic music that I enjoy, I tend to enjoy years later.

Like what? Im just curious what stands the test of time for you. For me, outside of Kraftwerk/Eno, the oldest electronic albums I still break out are:

Four Tet: Pause
Stars of the Lid: Ballasted Orchestra
Air: Moon Safari
Boards of Canada: MHtRtC
 
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AvocadoGenesis

I'm a G...CB President
Dec 17, 2002
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Well even a lot of recent electronic seems to be holding up well for me. For example, the works of:

Flying Lotus
Burial
Teebs
Four Tet
Kode 9 & Spaceape
Dabrye
Prefuse 73
and Dam-Funk


Sure a lot of that is recent (with the exception maybe of Prefuse), but I think much of the work of older artists holds up as well. Ex: Eno, Muslimgauze, Aphex's Selected Ambient Works, in addition to the catalogs of Boards of Canada and Air. Lately, I've been listening to more house and a lot of that has held up fairly well. Parrish, Soul Capsule, and Virgo to name a few.


I mean, I think you have a point that a lot of electronic music that is beloved now will kinda just fade out of our memories, but I'm confident that is true of a lot of instrument-based or classically conceived bands as well. I find that I don't listen to most of the indie rock that I used to have on repeat years ago. I don't really believe that this is an issue that solely plagues electronic music, though it may be more evident if you have a problem with the electronica that may actually _sound_ older based on production techniques.
 
Apr 21, 2010
495
68
Yeah, I agree about it being a problem with all genres, I've just always wondered if electronic music will ever have its White Album or Ziggy Stardust. Game changer albums with a timeless sound.
 

jyjjy

Almost Not a Noob
Sep 13, 2005
1,103
14
Yeah, I agree about it being a problem with all genres, I've just always wondered if electronic music will ever have its White Album or Ziggy Stardust. Game changer albums with a timeless sound.
I think plenty of albums by the masters(AFX, Autechre, Squarepusher, BOC, etc) fall into this category.
 

TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
12,290
aphex's SAW2 is undeniably classic. 85-92 as well, really. and put out so much material in that decade though, a lot of it was not so classic. but there are a ton of individual tunes he did that were amazing and classic (alberto balsam, flim, a handful of songs from drukqs, tons of AFX stuff, the tuss, etc.)

boc's MHTRTC is a classic of course. geogaddi is debatable i think. but boc's influence on today's electronic music is heavy and impossible to ignore.

basically, the warp juggernauts are obvious classics that will stand the test of time and probably only look more remarkable with age.

i think today burial might actually be the best example of an artist that stepped outside of trends and expectations and did his own thing so genuinely and completely. he reminds of a lot of the 90s warp guys in that he keeps to himself, doesnt promote himself all day, doesnt tour, etc. he just wants to make music (like he said in one of his rare 'public' appearances, "i just want to make tunes"), and you can see that it's genuine and not just a try for anonymous cool factor. he's also like the warp dudes in that his music simultaneously draws from modern forward-thinking dance sounds and creates something that is completely interesting to listen to sitting on your ass with some nice headphones. only his first album's stuff was really close to club-ready, and that's pushing it a bit. big djs (big in the 'underground') have been playing his stuff since the beginning though. it's just too good, and when utilized properly can be devastating.

i could go on about burial's greatness but i'm rambling enough as it is.

the distinction between club music and 'home listening' electronic music has been blurring more and more each day. they both draw from each other, and often are both at the same time. like, i listen to a lot of 12 inch singles at home and in the car. a lot of older dance music wouldnt work as well for that, i dont think. like early 90s detroit techno, some of it is just too raw and repetitive to be felt anywhere but in a dark, heavy club. sort of like how techno and house became techno/house, most of it, for a while now, not being fully one or the other. its been rare for a while for a tune to be able to be straight up a techno tune or a house tune. partly because those genres were region-based, then they migrated and hybridized over and over until it could no longer just be techno or house. though there are always the retro-leaning tunes that go for the straight house sound or whatever.

rambling again. not sure if ive even said anything thats really on topic. i was working toward a point then lost track. i give up for now. this is actually a pretty interesting topic that i think we could have a decent discussion on.

since i'm really far from getting to my main point, i'll do a short version: i don't think electronic music is particularly susceptible to wearing out quickly.

but there is the 'issue' of there being an excess of it, particularly in the last decade, that has been growing. any kid can get a DAW program pretty easily and make amazing music without even a midi keyboard or anything. but of course 99% of the amateur stuff out there is forgettable at best, because most of them aren't putting the same amount of work into their product that successful artists do, or they aren't good at forming connections with other artists (allowing them to learn from people with experience, get their foot in the door with people who can get them gigs, form a relationship with labels, etc.), simply aren't talented enough, or just don't care to be 'successful' in whatever terms. i like knowing that there are tons of people out there making great music and not pushing it on people, just making it because they enjoy making it. or the artists who have the talent to be huge (not platinum record huge, but BNM 9.5 huge) but decide to remain low and put out faceless releases on obscure, but respected smaller labels.

it blows my mind how much electronic music is out there, like on soundcloud and stuff. a lot of it is sort of decent, but ultimately really unremarkable, or having glaring production issues (production is everything...), or whatever. but way more of it is just bad. so much of it is bad, it's incredible.

that said, i'm all for this giant wave of musicians and producers that is washing over us. i like the idea of fuckloads of people having access to fruity loops and just making shit. i wish it wasnt 99.9% dudes just making bad versions of trendy dance music, but still, i like the idea of more people making 'art.' if more people just made what's inside them, without trying to sound like anything or anyone, that would be great. even if they werent especially talented or didnt have a unique/interesting perspective, it would at least be genuine, which makes it worth something.
 
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TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
12,290
LMAO at that post goddamn wtf

i'm sorry to anyone that reads all of that

BUT here is something actually valuable!!


if you havent already seen it. this is a great doc on electronic music. it's older, but that just makes it more interesting. and its full of weird 90s shit and nostalgic tunes and scenes.
 
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TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
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i remember vordhosbn, High Lord and Emperor of Forever of the IGN music boards, not caring much for geogaddi

so yes, there is a debate

i havent listened to it in a while but i always loved it. 1969 was the first BOC song i heard, a little after it came out, and it blew my mind so hard.

also geogaddi's opening always gave me an orgasm. those initial chords all by themselves... then into music is math? goddamn (listening right now)
 
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TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
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hey man geogaddi isnt a wrong answer. as long as you arent one of those fucksticks that think campfire headphase is their best
 

TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
12,290
one thing that always confused me was the criticism geogaddi got for being too similar to MHTRTC. i never got that at all. the production is more distinct, crisper, that mood of the album is different, there were little to no repeated samples. numerous tracks that were quite adventerous and nothing like anything on MHTRTC.

really never got that at all. pissed me off. people really knocked it hard for that.
 

TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
12,290
mhtrtc is my favorite too but i dont see how you can deny geogaddi is a classic. i thought that was what you said.
i mean to say that MHTRTC is undeniably classic. in the sense that very few people would disagree with that (and if they do they are fucktards). and geogaddi, it had a lot more criticism, people who thought it was disappointing, etc.

personally, i'm with you, i think geogaddi is definitely a classic. it's an amazing BOC record... it's classic.
 

TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
12,290
i will say this: the shorter, interlude type pieces are def better on MHTRTC.

i also think the other, longer tracks are mostly a notch above.

and in a more general sense i think MHTRTC had a perfect balance of innocence/nostalgia/warmth along side darkness/anxiety/cold. geogaddi obv leaned more dark, intentionally, and it worked, but in the end not as well imo.

bear in mind these words are based off my former obsession with BOC a long time ago when they were my favorite artists, combined with listening to them right now.

looking back on it, BOC (and a handful of other eye-opening, mindblowing artists) were probably the reason i did poorly in school and tended to detach myself from my immediate social environment. so many days ditching class to go sit in a hidden corner somewhere with my headphones and gigantic CD book that would take up so much space in my backpack that i would take it to school over textbooks that i needed for class. had in-ear monitors and just zoned hard.
 
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GoBlue32

Super Star
Feb 21, 2004
107,093
31,108
I like Campfire Headphase more than Geogaddi, but what do I know?

And just another group to throw out there, Deepchord presents Echospace is so fucking good I don't think I'll ever stop listening to them.

And Gas - Pop, that final track blows me away every time I listen to that album.
 
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Komusha

Last Year's Model
Sep 15, 2002
22,946
602
I think albums that contain strong enough melodies will hold up longer. I'm not even a huge electronic head, but Aphex Twin's Richard D. James album is one of my all-time favorites.
 
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TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
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liking campfire headphase more than geogaddi is fine, because i assume that means MHTRTC is your fave

honestly, sometimes i feel like i like headphase more than geogaddi too.
 
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Wallet-Inspector

A master debater and a cunning linguist
Aug 8, 2002
25,014
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I find that electronic music holds up really really well when the artist is going for a very deliberate sound that ISN'T about trying to be as "cool" as possible. A lot of the big beat albums sound ridiculous today because their music seems like little more than an attempt to string as many 'bitchin' sonic memes together as possible. "Yeah, lets have this highly repetitive looped beat and obscure vocal sample make up 80% of the track, because it's gonna piss off the squares. Don't forget to throw in some turntable scratching so everyone will know that we're down with rap music" This seemed to be a huge part of Fat Boy Slim's philosophy, not to mention Moby's and The Crystal Method's, and that's why their shit borders on unlistenable now. Then you look at someone like Aphex or BOC, and you see how they were actually doing something with the electronic sound...using it aesthetically to realize a much bigger vision. Boards of Canada especially seemed to be tapping into something important...like some collective unconscious of a generation raised with technology. I dunno, that's my 2 cents.
 

TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
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yeah i barely miss the Big Beat days.

most of them are embarrassing to listen to today. then you listen to albums like endtroducing... and the avalanches, and those albums are so fucking good and classic. they sort of did what a lot of the big beat stuff lazily tried to do, but did it at the highest level.

you make a fair point about when music is either made with trends in mind, or if it's made sort of in a vacuum. there are many artists today that create outside of the sphere of hipness; inside their own world and that's it. generally, those are my favorite artists, but you cant deny that there is great music coming and going along the wave of what is currently hip, too. imho.

like if you look at the "underground" "forward-thinking" dance music scenes out there in the UK and berlin and NYC or where ever, they all have their movement and their politics of what's cool and what's not.

an interesting progression along those lines is the way analog and digital has evolved. analog was all there was in the 70s, no one was making shit on computers or digital work stations or anything like that. then once the digital tech started coming around it was touted as being so much easier to work with, so much easier to get your ideas recorded. but in reality expanding your technology doesnt really get you closer to the truth. that's why a lot of the best artists right now run with simple analog setups, that allow for grit and a palpable sense of a human-made product. or you got guys who, while still running mostly analog, layer multiple recording methods in a unique chain in order to get a distinct, interesting sound.

i think those types of approaches are the ones that will have longevity. stuff like vatican shadow, for instance.
 

Wallet-Inspector

A master debater and a cunning linguist
Aug 8, 2002
25,014
1,804
I dig me some dance music like Daft Punk because of how they write great pop melodies.

The only big beat stuff I can stomach is that Prodigy album. Tracks like Climbatize and Mindfields have a wonderful atmosphere about them IMO.

Anyway, yeah, I can agree with some your last paragraph too. Using electronic recording methods is important because they can help transfer the sounds in your head to the record with more accuracy, depending on what that sound is. Traditional instruments alone are limited in realizing the music some artists hear in their head. You hear albums like Loveless, Era Extrana, Return to Cookie Mountain, Until the Quiet Comes, Isham, ad they feel less like a band playing instruments in front of you than this expansive vision that's being transferred from their minds into yours. There's no way those albums would be as memorable (or even possible) with traditional instruments alone. I think the more visual your sound is, the more you might need to integrate some electronics, but, then again, bands like Explosions in the Sky have found a way to create a huge, cinematic sound with basic drums, and electric Bass and Guitar without a lot of studio trickery. And, IMO, The Tallest Man On Earth's earlier stuff can make you feel like your out in the middle of the woods as well as MHTRTC can (though maybe while feeling a bit less like your also on shrooms). Traditional instruments might lack the ability to take an aesthetic as far as it can go, but they can still communicate musical ideas as well as anything. It just depends on the vision of the artist, IMO. They're the ones who know where their vision is placed on the continuum that starts with acoustic instruments and ends with synthesizers and sampling. As for longevity, I don't think it's about which recording methods are future proof as much as how many new options can be made available to the artist.
 

TabathaFiat

horrible man
Dec 24, 2011
35,847
12,290
tbh i still appreciate guys like chemical brothers. i fuckin loved them a long time ago. so its very nostalgic stuff for me. and daft punk are the shit and fuck anyone that says otherwise. i never listen to that stuff anymore but those guys (both of them) are still classic and important.

also i should add that great, lasting music can be made with purely digital means, too. and i mean if you look at autechre, for instance, most of their post-amber stuff wouldnt be possible without digital. they probably still used analog stuff too even in their later, more challenging days, but all their compositionally extreme material was mostly digitally born, i think. they are just great artists though, and if they decided to stick with old analog gear all the way they'd still have made classic music.

and even today there are many artists who create great sounding stuff pretty much just using ableton or fruity loops.

just wanted to make it clear that im not one of those "the only good, real stuff is analog" guys. i'm one of those "good music can be made by any means, it doesnt matter what gear you got, it matters how you use it" guys

its interesting also, looking at aphex twin's career arch in this regard. he started out making super raw shit, then fully embraced the possibilities of digital micro-composition in the wake of squarepusher and stuff like that. he then made a lot of what many consider to be his best material (windowlicker, come to daddy ep, RDJ album). then he took it to extremes with drukqs, and that was the last we heard of him. until he came back to release under AFX, claiming that he felt the need to go back to simple, pure analog recordings, with analords (which is some of my favorite stuff of his, too). then after a few years later he did The Tuss, which was a bit of an evolution of the more heavily developed analords stuff. and after disappearing for a while he now DJs here and there for probably lots of money and conducts symphonies with his laptop. lol.

the fuckin asshole said in an interview not that long ago that he had like five albums ready to be released. dude is a piece of shit fuckin tease. my guess is that his plan is to release the stuff once he gets tired of going out and performing, to keep making that $ without all the effort of traveling and playing out.
 
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Wallet-Inspector

A master debater and a cunning linguist
Aug 8, 2002
25,014
1,804
Yeah, RDJ is a genius so he pretty much gets away with doing whatever he wants, and apparently what he wants is to stop releasing music for people outside his own circle to enjoy. I guess the same thing could be said of the Sandison brothers too at this point. Fortunately all three have left a body of work so dense and packed with ideas that music fans could probably spend their whole lives enjoying and gaining inspiration from them, IMO
 
Jun 21, 2005
21,988
4,963
This thread is even more relevant because I'm going back to some older electronic records like James Blake's self titled & Rustie's Glass Swords and they just don't sound as good as they did in 2011. Oh how have things changed 6 years later.
 

AvocadoGenesis

I'm a G...CB President
Dec 17, 2002
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15,605
tbf the james blake album was weak at the time and divergent from his singles, which are a little boring but still decent and were pretty unique at the time.

I don't recall loving the Rustie album at the time which is kinda supported by me not buying the record. Listening to some of Sunburst right now and it's pretty alright still. Glass Swords was a pretty big jump from what Rustie had going on in his early singles and EPs and, honestly, that type of music just ain't gonna make a good album most times cause of how hyperactive and glitchy it is.

I like Campfire Headphase more than Geogaddi
look at this stupid asshole

Sent from my Calcucorn using Tapatalk
I tried to tell you, but you wouldn't listen
 

AvocadoGenesis

I'm a G...CB President
Dec 17, 2002
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But ya some of this shit is gonna sound extra bad in short time. I think it can be fairly easy to pick out what current music is gonna end up as disposable though.
 

noles848

No Longer a Noob
Jul 25, 2009
2,625
395
I’ll bite..

Geogaddi = a snooze, not a classic, not even better than campfire headphase
Burial = lots of incredible songs that will withstand test of time but albums that will not. EPs though...
Electronic music = a prolificly saturated market that’s out of ideas but still occasionally puts out a crossover classic that everyone can get into. The genre as a whole can’t compete with the longevity and creativity of other genres, it can only add to their effect
Experimental music = similar to above - accessibility limited to tryhards like myself back in the day ranging from 18 - 25. The thing is all the effort you put into enjoying that album can either surprisingly still hold up or it might just be something you don’t even remember listening to.
 

AaronP1264

Star
Dec 23, 2002
6,596
1,945
rustie, forest swords, man! reminding me of my 7 month no thc streak of 2013. good times.

also guys i almost died again (like a 3% chance, so very small chance) last weekend. i had a DVT (blood clot in my thigh). it was insane, when i went to the er they couldn't feel a pulse in my foot. if you ever have a cramp that swells up and doesn't quite seem like a cramp, go to the er. urgent care told me i tore a muscle when i had 0 activity the day before.