Sequel announced.

[Robtion]

Well the sequel has finally been announced and I am really looking forward to it (will get it for PS4). So what do people want to see in it?

 

[CHawk15]

A game that isn't rushed to market as a $$$ grab after a putting the franchise back on the map. I'd like to see a little more stealth and a little less run n gun. More Tombs.

 

[Robtion]

I agree, putting the Tomb back in TR would be nice. I would also like to see them take a page from TLoU in terms of storytelling/presentation of the story, and better writing for supporting NPC's. I would also like to see some scuba or water as it was fun in underworld.

 

[mohit9206]

Can't wait.Will get it on the PC.

 

[smiley22432]

They need to call it Lara Croft 2 instead of TR2. TR2 has been out since 1997 and I guarantee will still be much better than this new fake 'Tomb Raider' series they are putting out. I'm not saying that it is a bad game, just not a 'Tomb Raider' game.

 

[jyerxa]

They need to call it Lara Croft 2 instead of TR2. TR2 has been out since 1997 and I guarantee will still be much better than this new fake 'Tomb Raider' series they are putting out. I'm not saying that it is a bad game, just not a 'Tomb Raider' game.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Robtion]

I don't mind what they call it as long as it is good. I understand you feel upset by the departure from the original games though. Ahh, nostalgia

 

[LisaB1138]

I don't think it's nostalgia at all. Tomb Raider had very specific gameplay elements, most of which are gone from this iteration. It's not the same game at all. It's not nostalgia to want to play chess when someone's taken your pieces and decided to make checkers instead. Checkers may be a fine game and a lot of people may enjoy it, and it may have the same board with squares, but it's a very different game. It's not "nostalgia" to want to play chess instead.

 

[jyerxa]

I really like your parallels Lisa.

 

[Robtion]

He he. Hello again LisaB1138, sounds like you are looking for a debate?

Nostalgia involves sentimentality for the past, for a time, place, or thing with happy memories and personal associations. When reminiscing about games that we liked 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago, a sense of nostalgia certainly comes into play. For example I loved the original Tenchu: Stealth Assassins on PS1, and have many fond memories of it, but it definitely does not hold up well overall today on many levels.

I appreciate the parallel you are trying to draw with Chess and Checkers but really your logic is somewhat flawed. Chess and Checkers are relatively simple (not easy, simple, two different things), static games, due partly to the simplicity of the technology involved in creating 'board games'. They have not evolved in the same way that video games have as they are a less complex medium. If board game technology evolved at the same rate as computers we may be playing chess with robots, holograms, chess pieces would now bad mouth each other while battling in real time, and there would be an extended story campaign along with various variants of multiplayer such as capture the queen, and team chessmatch (sorry ).

If you want to draw a fairly reasonable parallel to video games then movies are probably a much better choice as they have also evolved over time.

Video games are tied to the technology they exist on and as that technology evolves so do they. While the original Tomb Raider was ground breaking and really just fantastic for it's time, by todays standards it is no longer a particularly impressive game, being largely outdated. People with fond memories of the game may disagree due to a sense of...you guessed it nostalgia, however to anyone else the game will look very dated when compared to contemporary games.

I could go on and on but I won't. I realise you are not a fan of shooting, and yes there is a lot of it in the new TR, so it is not a surprise that you are not taken with it. It is however a lot better than the shooting that was available in the original TR, though I know that was not a core component of the game. Unfortunately shooting is what the kids like these days it seems so developers and production companies are going to put a lot of it in games. I agree it is a shame as there are plenty of other excellent and in my opinion more enjoyable gameplay types.

Anyway, all the best guys.

 

[jyerxa]

OH gawd......................

The freaken game ain't the same but has the same damn name. Get your head out of your A$$. No need to debate the issue. Freaken Moron.

 

[LisaB1138]

He he. Hello again LisaB1138, sounds like you are looking for a debate?

Nostalgia involves sentimentality for the past, for a time, place, or thing with happy memories and personal associations. When reminiscing about games that we liked 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago, a sense of nostalgia certainly comes into play. For example I loved the original Tenchu: Stealth Assassins on PS1, and have many fond memories of it, but it definitely does not hold up well overall today on many levels.

I appreciate the parallel you are trying to draw with Chess and Checkers but really your logic is somewhat flawed. Chess and Checkers are relatively simple (not easy, simple, two different things), static games, due partly to the simplicity of the technology involved in creating 'board games'. They have not evolved in the same way that video games have as they are a less complex medium. If board game technology evolved at the same rate as computers we may be playing chess with robots, holograms, chess pieces would now bad mouth each other while battling in real time, and there would be an extended story campaign along with various variants of multiplayer such as capture the queen, and team chessmatch (sorry ).

If you want to draw a fairly reasonable parallel to video games then movies are probably a much better choice as they have also evolved over time.

Video games are tied to the technology they exist on and as that technology evolves so do they. While the original Tomb Raider was ground breaking and really just fantastic for it's time, by todays standards it is no longer a particularly impressive game, being largely outdated. People with fond memories of the game may disagree due to a sense of...you guessed it nostalgia, however to anyone else the game will look very dated when compared to contemporary games.

I could go on and on but I won't. I realise you are not a fan of shooting, and yes there is a lot of it in the new TR, so it is not a surprise that you are not taken with it. It is however a lot better than the shooting that was available in the original TR, though I know that was not a core component of the game. Unfortunately shooting is what the kids like these days it seems so developers and production companies are going to put a lot of it in games. I agree it is a shame as there are plenty of other excellent and in my opinion more enjoyable gameplay types.

Anyway, all the best guys.

You're wrong. The parallel works. Technology is the red herring here. Your presumption is that games can no longer exists because technology changes. Games are more than the medium. Technology has nothing really to do with the Game. What is Wheel of Fortune but Hangman with light up cubes and money? The game is still the same: be the first to guess the phrase. I'm sure it's even prettier on PC version somewhere, but the technology doesn't make the original game less fun or impossible to play. I'm sure teachers are still putting hangmen on the blackboards when they've got some time to kill. The Game is still fun. The medium is incidental.

Tomb Raider is the same. Technology is not forcing any change. No one woke up and said, "Gosh, we can't have large open, empty spaces with a few choice enemies. We can't have an atmosphere of dread, loneliness. We can't have simple upgrade systems, few but meaningful pickups, and solutions that require lots of exploration to discover not only the puzzle, but the solution? No, technology demands we have small, one-glance spaces with dozens of (illogically) well-armed enemies and lots of pickups that really don't do anything besides get picked up."

No, technology doesn't have anything to do with it. Developers have decided on a formula they believe will sell the most games. There's a demographic they are catering too, one they believe represents the majority of gamers. They may be right, but it's a mistake to think there isn't a market for different types of games. There are gamers who don't want to run-and-gun their way through every game. Jim Sterling explains this best in his "Perfect Pasta Sauce" video. (Indeed, TR2013 had an opportunity to offer real variety of gameplay, but opted instead for endless gun battles because they believe that's all anyone wants to play, I guess.)

Squeenix wants to sell games. I get that. I simply think there's a market beyond shoot-em-up. It's a shame that the original game is has lost all adventure to blam blam blam.

 

[Robtion]

You are a little blunt at times aren't you? You may want to work on that

The parallel does not work. Again you are using an overly simplistic game (hangman) and comparing it to a more complex medium, video games. There is much more to games than just gameplay mechanics. Story, characters, atmosphere, sound design, graphics, and so on are all important. That's not to say simple games can't be fun, I love Hotline Miami, as a recent example.

Creativity and good artistic design can go a long way to engaging a player in a games world and creating an enjoyable game, even if the gameplay is not outstanding. One of my favourite ps2 games was Primal. Gameplay was not ideal however everything else was done so well it really drew me in a I played through it at least 3 or 4 times over several years. A more recent example Alice the madness returns. Gameplay is good but for me the game is elevated to really great by the atmosphere, artistic design, and story.

I agree with the majority of your final two paragraphs except for the extreme black and white statement that technology doesn't have anything to do with it. As I stated in my last post i agree it is a shame game makers are so shooting focused as there are plenty of other equally or more enjoyable gameplay types. Shooting is not even close to my favourite gameplay mechanic, I prefer exploration, traversal, platforming, stealth, close combat, dialogue and many more over shooting.

I like a lot of Jim Sterling's reviews as he does not seem to just go along with the majority of the media but rather expresses his own opinion, which often lines up with my own.

Anyhow I guess we will just agree to disagree as I get the impression you are fairly set on your ideas, which is fine. This is really not a great medium for discussion/debate, as there is too much room for misinterpretation.

All the best

 

[LisaB1138]

You are a little blunt at times aren't you? You may want to work on that

The parallel does not work. Again you are using an overly simplistic game (hangman) and comparing it to a more complex medium, video games. There is much more to games than just gameplay mechanics. Story, characters, atmosphere, sound design, graphics, and so on are all important. That's not to say simple games can't be fun, I love Hotline Miami, as a recent example.

I apologize for my bluntness. I did not intend to any offense. I do enjoy talking to you and value your opinion.

Gameplay mechanics are what make it a game. Story, character, atmosphere, et al., certainly add a lot. I don't deny it. (Goodness knows story is the only reason I finished AOD.) But they're not what makes the game a game. Somewhere under all the skins, the menus, the music, there's things you have to do to "win" the game. At the deepest level, a video game is really no different than chess or Monopoly. There's a game there that you play. Find stuff. Solve stuff. Kill stuff. Kill stuff as stylishly as possible. (Dante made me write that.) Collect whatever currency the game uses, be it souls or points or money to make yourself a more successful player. All the other stuff, what I call "window dressing", is what makes those activities more interesting and emotionally engaging than playing chess or Monopoly.

So IMO, there's a tectonic shift in the both the stuff that made Tomb Raider a game and the stuff that made Tomb Raider a game interesting to me personally. The stuff I have to do to "win" the game changed greatly, and all the stuff that's supposed to make it interesting, turned me off.

I think the changes to the game were made with deliberate attempt to market the game to the Uncharted crowd. I just don't think it will ever be able to compete in that market really. After playing TLOU, it's clear Naughty Dog is far, far better at what it does than CD is at it. TR is up against it anyway, having a female protagonist. I think it will always be the red-headed stepchild.

 

[jyerxa]

I really hate that mentality. Summing things up as simplistic. TR is nothing as it once was. Pure and simple.

 

[Robtion]

No problem LisaB1138, we're fine I understand all of your points and yes and gameplay mechanics are very important and generally do make or break a game, but as we seem to have agreed upon there is more to modern video games than just game mechanics and 'window dressing' is also an important element.

I agree with you about TR trying to go for the uncharted crowd and also broaden it's marked by adding lots of shooting. I too would love to see TR go back to focusing on puzzles, exploration, and traversal, but I am still happy with the new game, even if it's not perfect and deviates significantly from the original TR formula. To each their own.

Jyerxa hate is a strong word, you obviously have some intense feelings on this topic. What mentality are you talking about? I'm hardly summing things up as simplistic. If you love the original TR then it is still available to download and play.

Pure and simple, he he, nice to see you have a sense of humour about it. Also I still love Abbey Chase too (the original J Scott Campbell one I mean, not the new comics though. See what I did there, a parallel ).

 

[jyerxa]

Also I still love Abbey Chase too (the original J Scott Campbell one I mean, not the new comics though. See what I did there, a parallel ).

Using that simple word saves a lot of typing to say the same thing.

You can't be that bad of a guy then. I quit paying attention once J Scott Campbell quit or gave up on it. I guess Abbey Chase is really just a symbol of a good time with good games. I was really hoping that the Danger Girl game would have caught on. I could see so much potential. But so many games have fallen by the wayside or abandoned their roots and even genre. Oh well. I know what I like and I don't really change my mind to much.

 

[jyerxa]

 

[jyerxa]

I'm having an Abbey Chase moment.

 

[jyerxa]

Abbey could certainly take off with a game of her own leaving Lara in the dust.

This is really how my living room is decorated today. LOL

 

[gamerfrom1980]

PS4 version will be great and all But I think I will get it on PC instead

 

[Robtion]

Yeah I would love to see another danger girl game on PS4 I really liked the game on the PS1 for it's time. I have the original Danger Girl series in a collected edition and have read it probably a dozen times over the years. The art is great, the characters are likeable, the dialogue is funny, and the story is really entertaining.

There were a lot of PS1 and PS2 era games that were really fantastic and everything was fresh because games were really just hitting their stride with the leap from 2d platformers to 3d traversal with games like the original TR.

Gamerfrom1980 I was born in 81 so I guess I am a gamer from the 80's too PC is great if that's your go to platform, I have never been a huge PC gamer really, apart from here and there (half life, hl2, dawn of war, vampire the masquerade bloodlines were my main PC games back when I did some pc gaming). I would really miss Sony's exclusives if I went to PC only gaming they have always put out some of my favourite games each generation on the PS platform. To each his own though. Also nice avatar, Persona 4 golden has been one of my favourite games on the vita.

 

[LisaB1138]

I graduated HS in 1981. I'm so old--but I am the coolest mom among my kids' friends.

TBH-- I don't know how anyone can NOT have a Sony system. I don't think I'm being a snob when I say that some gamers are seriously missing out with some of Sony's exclusives.

 

[Robtion]

Meh, cheer up, age is just a number . I remember playing super Mario brothers on the NES with my grandfather as a kid and thinking he was pretty cool as most adults back then couldn't care less about video games. He is in his 80's and still plays games, mostly flight simulators, and Red dead redemption.

I agree 100%. So many great games over the years on PlayStation, I do feel sorry for people who are missing out. PS2 era had such an abundance of great exclusives in particular, I remember the original god of war blowing my mind, and shadow of the colossus was such a great and unique experience , I'm surprised it hasn't been imitated more.

Did you ever play beyond good and evil? That is a game I would absolutely love to see a sequel for.

 

[Robtion]

http://forums.eidosgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=328
Official forum open if you would like to give feedback as to what you would like to see in the TR sequel

 

[LisaB1138]

Beyond Good and Evil is one of my favorite games, as are Team ICO's games. The Last Guardian is probably the only reason I would consider a PS4, but I would be greatly annoyed at Sony if they pushed it to the PS4 after all these years in development. Greatly annoyed.

 

[LisaB1138]

Sorry for the double post, but the edit function seems wonky.

I just logged in at the Eidos forums. My last post there was in January of 2009! I'm not sure if there's any point to commenting. It's clear they're going to make more Uncharted wannabe games. They're not interested in making the sort of games I like to play.

 

[Robtion]

Probably true unfortunately as the new TR did sell very well and that is what they're looking for. I hope naughty dog moves on from uncharted on the ps4 as they have done with each past console generation. I loved uncharted but feel the current trilogy is enough. Not sure if I want a last of us sequel. Loved it but worried they might ruin it if too many sequels or franchising it.

 

[jyerxa]

I'm a grandpa now. Got two grandaughters. My oldest has already rode the horses around in Skyrim at grandpas house. The very first Tomb Raider game I got was for my daughter when she was oh so young. TR II. Guess who ended up really liking it. I was Dad then.

 

[Robtion]

Well my little guy is turning one tomorrow so I'm still in the newish dad zone. Hard to imagine what the first game we play might be. He loves chewing the PS controllers though.

 

[LisaB1138]

Crash Bandicoot, of course! That was the first game in our house when Dennis got the PS1 at six years. He was really good at it too, and it's still fun to watch him play. He just breezes through. It's mesmerizing.

Plus, the music and level design in that game are so good.

 

[jyerxa]

Oh gawsh. The memories you guys bring back to life. It is getting to be a while ago now. And the old age CRS is surfacing. I think it was the Nintendo 64 that had Donkey Kong Country and Mario Bro's Racing? And how could I forget Zelda and the Ocarina of time? All three of us played these games together. Big brother would help out little sister in Zelda on lots of occasions. I thought it made for good family time and building pleasant memories for all as we got to where we are now. OLD!

Yeah, Us parents who sat down with our kids and played with them were hits in every neighborhood I am sure. Sure made my life rich. And I got to know all of the kids in the neighborhood at that. People who have issues with video games and kids have missed out on one of the best tools devised for parents to keep in touch with their kids as they grow. It was an excellent tool for raising kids. Social status at school and things that are important to kids life's. And that is my two cents for today.

 

[jyerxa]

Doh! Mario Cart!!!

 

[jyerxa]

I made sure my son had an NES for christmas. Battle Toads and Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles were the thing then. Wow. Yes. sit down with your kid as soon as posible and when you get old like me now. (I graduated in 75 Lisa ) They still sit down with you. My son will be 30 in Dec. We are playing coop Mine Craft right now.

 

[Robtion]

I agree, demonizing Video games is frankly pretty silly and is only born of ignorance. I look forward to playing games with my kids, in moderation of course as I am also big on getting outdoors and getting some good old fashioned exercise.

Of course crash bandicoot is great, naughty dog have always produced top notch games every generation. Really looking forward to seeing what nd do on ps4.
I am hoping knack will be good on the ps4 but will wait and see, I have some reservations.