Contrarian Corner: Bayonetta

[Bot-IGN]

Article Comments for [link=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/106/1061961p1.html]Contrarian Corner: Bayonetta[/link]
by Mike Thomsen

Summary: The immediate cultural context for Bayonetta is of Exploitation. This tradition, to me, has always been an audience directed sneer, a pantomime of the worst social stereotypes and fears for the sake of deriding those for who believe in them. [link=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/106/1061961p1.html]Read Full Article[/link]

 

[SeymourDuncan17]

Anybody who takes Bayonetta seriously, like the guy in the article, is stupid.

Bayonetta's personality is part of the humor of the game. She's an over-the-top, cheesy, high-class stripper with fighting skills. Anybody that takes something like that seriously needs to take a walk.

And I say again, what man would complain about this girl getting partially naked to do her finishing moves especially when those finishing moves are insanely awesome.

Stereotypes are plentiful in games, yet Bayonetta seems to be singled out.

Horrible article.

 

[GrayDragon7]

Yea I agree sounds like it.

 

[clada]

I have to agree with Seymour on this one. I found Bayonetta to be a hoot from start to finish. I got what I expected; a campy, over-the-top, in your face action game. The protagonist makes the whole experience that much better. She has a no bull**** kind of attitude, with plenty of sass and hilariously cool finishing moves. Who cares if she gets half nude while doing so? That's what makes the game so fun and entertaining. Not because I want to get off to a digital half nude character, but because she's so confident and poised while doing so. She flaunts her curves just like many male gaming characters flaunt their muscles.

All in all, someone who delves deep into the profundities of Bayonetta completely missed the mark and overall point of the game. So haters, lighten up.

 

[SeymourDuncan17]

I have to agree with Seymour on this one. I found Bayonetta to be a hoot from start to finish. I got what I expected; a campy, over-the-top, in your face action game. The protagonist makes the whole experience that much better. She has a no bull**** kind of attitude, with plenty of sass and hilariously cool finishing moves. Who cares if she gets half nude while doing so? That's what makes the game so fun and entertaining. Not because I want to get off to a digital half nude character, but because she's so confident and poised while doing so. She flaunts her curves just like many male gaming characters flaunt their muscles.

All in all, someone who delves deep into the profundities of Bayonetta completely missed the mark and overall point of the game. So haters, lighten up.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[amrraed]

yeah i have to agree on this one . the Camera issues really killed the game for me , it is too far away and moves in a strange angles that you can't even see what is happening

 

[tru2sonic]

What is wrong with this guy? Someone who reads this much into a video game, A FANTASY WORLD THAT'S NOT REAL AND NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN AS REAL NEEDS TO GET A LIFE! Bayonetta is everything I want in a video game. Nonstop, over-the-top action from start to finish.

 

[hobez]

It's funny how the whole concept of a "Contrarian corner" exists as a flame bait, but I'll indulge you Mr. Thomsen.

First of all, regarding the combat mechanics, whether each of us find a way to make use of the various nuances and variations that the game blatantly allows us to learn is entirely up to one's dedication and skill. You generalize the whole experience based on your own, and expect everyone to just smash 4 randomly selected combinations everytime. I made good use of the abundant loading screens I can tell you that.

The checkpoints in my opinion were a good way to keep the pace going and avoiding a feeling of frustration that can get to you in these over-the-top crazy action games. And the camera... well you tell me how to actually make a camera work while doing double somersaults across the screen.

Finally, this constant moral questioning of the "kill everything that moves" concept that is inherent to these sort of games is unnecessary.

What I find seriously senseless about all these editorials is that they don't question the game's outcome based on the creator's vision, but the vision itself. Seriously, videogames as an evolving form of entertainment allow and need this sort of craziness. Limiting or censoring the creator's ability to express itself would just deprive everyone, who apreciate them, great experiences like this.

 

[TimJacklepappy]

This is a pointless article. I think you had a beef with it because it tramples all over your dogmatic belief system. There's free speech so get over it. I enjoyed the game a lot, and it has a far out story but is it really so far out? Besides all the super crazy futuristic elements, how different is the city of Vigrid from the Vatican? I think thats the point they were making is that most religions promote violence and incite hatred. FAIL

 

[TimJacklepappy]

The city of Vigrid in the game is the future Vatican. So get used to crazy sociopathic theological rulers.

 

[_SPIDEY_cgt]

This writer is awesome. I have not read an article this good in years! The references used and the deep comparisons are brilliant. I applaud this auther and look for forward to reading more rhetoric in the future. In fact, I want to do some research and read the past work. And not to belittled gaming at all, but who would thought I would have read this on IGN.

 

[kiera2]

She flaunts her curves just like many male gaming characters flaunt their muscles.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Nor me. Bayonetta is just Dante with tits - hilariously egotistical, and cocky in a way that I'm sure would make me hate her in real life. She's so over the top your really can't take her seriously. But I have to love the way she unashamedly flaunts everything she's got.

[link=http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/213466/bayonetta-empowering-or-exploitative/]This chick[/link] hit on something I hadn't really thought about before:

"As a woman, I haven't often been satisfied by female character options that effectively boil down to 'the same thing as a man, just with breasts and a ponytail.' Thanks to its innovative approach to the idea of female power, Bayonetta is the first action game heroine that's made me directly conscious of how cool it is to be a girl."

I grew up with boys and spent my entire childhood trying to show that I could be the same as any boy. It wasn't until I was at university that I properly understood my own sexuality, and learned that being a woman gives me a whole set of things that men can't have or do - that having breasts is awesome. Bayonetta is a character who loves being sexy and revels in her sexuality. And I enjoy that.

I also have serious doubts that this game is intentionally antagonism towards religion. I can see how a person who's grown up in a Christian environment would jump to the conclusion that this game exploits negative feelings about Christianity, but that's giving the game's Japanese creators far too much credit. Japan is an incredibly secular society - since I moved here almost two years ago I've had to explain concepts as fundamental as Easter to my Japanese coworkers. Most Japanese people's knowledge of Christianity goes no further than a general idea that there's a God, a heaven, a hell, and a holiday called Christmas. For those of us raised in secular environments, killing angels in Bayonetta has no more significance than killing Greek gods in God of War. Basing the storyline loosely on western religion has nothing to do with anti-religiosity and everything to do with the convenience of borrowing a pre-packaged mythos.

 

[FuzzyDunlop21]

And I say again, what man would complain about this girl getting partially naked

Anyone out of puberty, for one.



But I can agree that Mike may be looking too much into it. Im not sure his views on the game are what the developers had in mind when they created it. Either way, always a good read. Mike's articles are mental masturbation.

 

[SeymourDuncan17]

She flaunts her curves just like many male gaming characters flaunt their muscles.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Nor me. Bayonetta is just Dante with tits - hilariously egotistical, and cocky in a way that I'm sure would make me hate her in real life. She's so over the top your really can't take her seriously. But I have to love the way she unashamedly flaunts everything she's got.

[link=http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/213466/bayonetta-empowering-or-exploitative/]This chick[/link] hit on something I hadn't really thought about before:

"As a woman, I haven't often been satisfied by female character options that effectively boil down to 'the same thing as a man, just with breasts and a ponytail.' Thanks to its innovative approach to the idea of female power, Bayonetta is the first action game heroine that's made me directly conscious of how cool it is to be a girl."

I grew up with boys and spent my entire childhood trying to show that I could be the same as any boy. It wasn't until I was at university that I properly understood my own sexuality, and learned that being a woman gives me a whole set of things that men can't have or do - that having breasts is awesome. Bayonetta is a character who loves being sexy and revels in her sexuality. And I enjoy that.

You've been WUL'd. Great post.

 

[HalcyonAegis]

Good. Gravy. To claim that Hideki Kamiya had any sort of subversive artistic intentions is just ridiculous. The whole game is consumed with one thing: being outrageous for the sake of being outrageous. Kamiya likely just wanted to put as much ridiculousness on screen as possible. Nothing wrong with that, in itself. But claiming that Kamiya did this under the pretense of some commentary on religion or society--or anything at all--is a monumental leap of logic.

Furthermore, the portrayal of sexuality in the game offends me. Not much--it's just lightweight entertainment intended for young adults--but it does grate on me a bit. I consider sex an important part of you, one that you have to live with, accept,and explore, but keep to yourself and perhaps one or two others. No need to parade it in the streets. So Bayonetta is a tad disconcerting, despite the fact that she's so over-the-top and crazy.

That said, the game is fantastic in its gameplay, though I have a hard time with the combos. I'm sure it'll come to me eventually. Maybe.

 

[kiera2]

You've been WUL'd. Great post.

Thanks

Furthermore, the portrayal of sexuality in the game offends me. Not much--it's just lightweight entertainment intended for young adults--but it does grate on me a bit. I consider sex an important part of you, one that you have to live with, accept,and explore, but keep to yourself and perhaps one or two others. No need to parade it in the streets.

I respect that that plenty of people like to keep sex to themselves. Personally I disagree - I believe sex and sexuality are things we should enjoy openly. And, getting back to this article, I can't stand the derogation of sex as something "base", as if that were in and of itself a bad thing. Enjoying sex is no more "base" or "animal" than enjoying good food or enjoying the endorphin rush you get from exercise, but we don't see people decrying competitive sport or expensive restaurants for exploiting base instincts.

 

[4theluvofmusic]

The way she walks annoys me.

 

[riseofthemike]

I like the article..But I just can't bring myself to agree with everything Thomsen say's. Firstly, yes, to the Christian mind Witches are bad...But in reality, they're not. Also, the story is non-nonsensical because of the elements portrayed..If it were a serious story a lot more people would be offended. The sexuality in the game is a good thing, I wasn't offended at all. Men get the same treatment but we're held to a different standard. Don't believe me, watch twilight 2. lol.

Seriously, an older women came in and all she could talk about was how (Jacob) took off his shirt and how sexy he looked.

The combat system, to me at least, is fun...I love these kinds of games and always have. The system is set up for a reason..people enjoy the games...Much like my ability to not only like but understand Faulkner, I have no problem stringing the combo's together.

All in all, like i said, well written, great article..just can't really agree with it.

Oh and to finish on a point i brought up earlier..Witches are not bad..Just like being a Christian doesn't mean you're good. People are people..On that, Movies, books, etc etc..have long held that Witches are evil and they get their butts kicked by God and angels and Christians the world over..Even though the game portrays you as not such a good person..and naughty little witch..it is a bout time that the tides were turned and we got something that showed us another side.

On a personal level, being a Pagan, i'm a little offended by the depiction of witches in the game. But it's just a game and i enjoyed it and am continuing to enjoy it.

What many people do not understand is that, unlike the Alasteir Crowley version of witches and rituals...It's a lot more like Christianity than many think. The spells and mantra's..just prayers really...the rituals part of those prayers..As a matter of fact, thousands of years before CHrist...Witches were preaching understanding, love, etc..All the same things that Christ said in the bible..

I grew up Catholic..with a Roman Catholic grandmother..Hardcore of the hardcore Catholics..My mother was Pagan...They didn't get along to well. But when my time came and after a lot of soul searching..I found that i was drawn to the God's of old..and that is my way.

Also, it should be noted that Jesus was a jew..and being a jew he had a specific belief...All jew's believe this..You see, they believed in many, many God's..but that they made a pact with only one..which became their one true God. So even Jesus believed in other God's...

 

[Topgamer101]

Wow Mike, I wasn't sure where you were going with that article. I honestly thought for a little bit you basically wrote a 2 page slam against the game, lol.

While I'm not hugely interested in the title, I do agree with you on Bayo herself. The overly sexual bits are a bit much for me to enjoy and it sort of pulls me away from wanting to play it.

However you do take some shots at action games as well, and I think those are a little much. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's just nice to see someone write out their feelings in such a manner rather than resorting to the usual internet forum banter you usually see.

 

[Suwaru]

Even though none your SAT words threw me. I feel kind of stupid for not thinking as deeply about the game as you did. The story didn't make any sense, so I started skipping the cutscenes and killing whatever-the-hell I was fighting.

 

[heyface30000]

Shut up.

 

[-Kuro-]

This is basically one of the most pretentious things I have ever read.

 

[ShadowOfEden]

I just use the D'Arc costume, it looks awesome on her(she will no longer reveal skin, but I don't care)

About the combos, the article is crazy. There's a huge difference between P P P K, P P K or P P P P. You'll find the difficulty curve merciless only if you have no ideas what you are doing and are just mashing any buttons hoping enemies will die. From there, you'll just play russian roulette : You'll find the game hard because it took you 6 tries to win, when in reality, you were just lucky.

Bayonetta is sadly MUCH easier than Devil May Cry (especially 1 and 3). I'm a freak of those kind of games and really enjoyed Bayonetta, but really was let down by the fact that my play time on hard mode was under 3 hours. Witch Time is really too powerful. Even in Non-Stop Climax (without Witch Time), it doesn't get much harder since you'll obviously use the item that creates explosions when you dodge.

So in the end : Relax! You will only find that game if you stress and start mashing buttons randomly. If you are getting angry with those Grace and Glory, just turn off the game and come back later (if you select resume, you'll restart at the last check point).
Those games are about peace of mind. You have to be in perfect control of your fingers, no matter what the game throws at you. Concentrate, dodge, kick their ass in Witch Time!

 

[SeymourDuncan17]

Bayonetta is sadly MUCH easier than Devil May Cry (especially 1 and 3). I'm a freak of those kind of games and really enjoyed Bayonetta, but really was let down by the fact that my play time on hard mode was under 3 hours.

So you beat the ENTIRE game on HARD in under 3 hours?

.....................

No words can describe just how BS that sounds.

 

[ilfito]

Wow this Mike guy needs to get laid, or stop jerking off. I really liked DMC but this time am saving my money for GOW so I did not play this game

 

[eRockMDKILL]

yea blah blah blah....Bayonetta is awesome! It's the one of the best action games I have played in a long time. Can't wait for Dante's Inferno and GOW3.

 

[ShadowOfEden]

@SeymourDuncan17
You keep all items and moves (including the panther) and not all rooms are locked, so you can sometimes just skip a fight. You unlock the Bangle Of Time for completing the game under 3 hours on Normal or higher, so the devs obviously considered it possible. Look it up before calling BS. A lot of people have it. Just looking at the leaderboard and a lot of people had much better times than me.

I have the Platinum trophy already, meaning I completed Very Hard and everything else.

 

[Maximaspawn]

This article is a cheap and uninspiring attempt at poetry, and it just plain sucks.

 

[LuccaMarle]

Terrible.

 

[item258]

my brother bought it the day it came out. i played it....wish i hadn't.

 

[FluffyTim]

The article may not be perfect, but I'm glad to see some negative criticism for this game. All I have seen since release are articles about how great it is. To me the game was terrible. A complete waste of my time. Myabe because I had just finished the GOW collection. If you've had your action game fix, all Bayonetta leaves you with is an oversexed main character and a feeling of embarrassment anytime somebody sees you playing it. It just isn't fun.

 

[Greed1914]

I think you missed the point of this, FluffyTim. This article actually complimented the game for having a fun character that was comfortable with her sexuality and still kicked as much butt as any guy.

 

[requiem_mourned]

wtf..... I mean seriously.....what the ****. Why do i continue to pay my subscription to read ****ed up **** like this. The games sucked ass. plain and simple. dont try to cover it up because you got a hard on while playing it. Go to youporn and jerk it and get it over with. This way you'll stop wasting my time and yours. i mean seriously. what the **** is this ****. Why the **** do you get paid to write this ****. Dropped the ball IGN. Dropped the ball.........

 

[elexorcismo1]

A bunch of haters.Darksiders was a child's game,to easy and immature.Bayonetta has style.love this game.

 

[gtr456r]

GREAT JOB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This article could stand it's place in the New York Times! Thanks to IGN for letting your Editors do more than one page ads for games, and delve into the depths of the gaming industry. This is a shift in direction, and will, sooner or later, be critically acclaimed!!! Mike, great job!!! Keep these editorials coming for those of use who are not mere Fanboys who think more about their high school proms. Actually, can you not collect these editorials in one spot so I don't miss a single piece, as they've all been brilliant? And make them available as an App in iTunes (oh, and a News app there, too, please).

 

[rootveldt]

well reasoned argument for the heavy sexualization in Bayonetta. too many big words!

"mud footed camera" you know you can adjust that, right?

"...Faulkner being inscrutable to a literal-minded reader." or just about anyone. no i mean I read him in college and loved the sound and the fury but couldn't have understood the book without a really good class.

 

[Stromulus28]

It's odd to me that a video game in which the protagonist is a sexually empowered woman ignites a debate over whether this is misogynist or a sign of progress. What's even odder is that both sides are more or less correct. In the end, this type of game is boring. I rented God of War once, and took it back early. This type of thing is tired and basically makes the gamer community seem younger and more impish than it really is.

This article was well written and I hope to see a 5,000 word treatise on the merits of Mass Effect 2 as soon as possible.

P.S. Bring on the big words. Might as well put that college degree to use every once and a while, right boys?

 

[dtrave]

Played the demo and would probably like the game if it wasn't so weird. I'll wait for GoW3 instead thanks.

 

[ShadowOfEden]

@Stromulus28
For Bayonetta and DMC, the main selling point for me is the depths of combat. In God Of War on normal, you can just mash buttons and you'll probably win. In Bayonetta, you need to stay calm, not attack all the time, time your evades perfectly and use the right combos at the right time. The combat is all the game has but it's one of the deepest battle system ever. As much as I love Mass Effect's story, I played ME1 as a Soldier and you'll easily completed the game by shooting at everything that moves without any strategy. What I love in Mass Effect is that you really feel that you are the character, since your choices have a weight, unlike games like Fallout where they give you a false impression of having choices. But like many other game, it's still a game where you can turn off your brain and just mash buttons. It's not true on impossible, but in Bayonetta, it's not true on Normal.

And about God Of War, while the combat is simplistic, the story is pretty good and the design (levels, decors, enemies, cutscenes, music) are awesome, so I'll definetly complete God Of War 3.

 

[GeekyDaD]

I appreciate the sentiment, but in America, Bayonetta isn't breaking any cultural barriers. Porn is the highest-selling commodity in hotels around the country, and the menu at McDonald's is our constitution.

This article is kind of unnecessary, really.

 

[ShadowOfEden]

And lol at the article. "exact control precision in Wii Sports Resort", wow. Beside, how can you not tell if you're at the third or fourth punch? If the visuals are hidden, you still have sound, timing and the controller (if you do not mash the button until the buffer of the previous one is done) to tell you where you are. If you cannot get any of those hints, you're playing russian roulette and you should really return to brain dead Wii Sports.

Playing russian roulette : Pressing random buttons, hoping that they were what you should have pressed at the right time. Like playing russian roulette with only one bullet missing, you'll die often and will sometime win out of pure luck, since there's no skill involved in russian roulette.

 

[xXHelikaonXx]

@geekydad
"Porn is the highest-selling commodity in hotels around the country, and the menu at McDonald's is our constitution."

Win XD

 

[pin316]

Really...just, really?

It actually says a lot about the game that the article where you're supposed to be contrary (so in this case, slam it for all it's worth) onyl seriously comments on only a few aspects of the actual game itself (camera, linearity, ease), one of which you can alter, the second of which, well, it's supposed to be a linear game - it was designed that way, and the third of which - have you played it on hard?

However, i do feel a slight twitch of annoyance that IGN decide to write/run an article that flames a game for content. There is absolutely no need to bring up religious contexts, sexual exploitation, or anything else like that - we live in a world nowadays where political correctness has been taken over the top, it shouldn't be the same in games. I mean, there's a limit - but don't go over the top.

I don't care if there's only a tenuous link between witches and the bible, it has no relevance on a game as it's not supposed to be true. It's made up, and i give a whole-hearted two thumbs up to someone who can go through the thought process 'let's make a game where you can beat the crap out of angels and the main character can use her hair as a weapon!' - you can only make so many different types of game/story (13 stories over 7 themes, anyone?) so the real challenge is to make something that still seems fresh. I finished the game with a friend over the weekend (awesome idea btw - taking it in turns with control changing after death or chapter finish) and it was one of the most enjoyable gaming experiences i've had in a long time. The supposedly 'sexual' cutscenes were actually funny - actually had us both in stitches at a few points. I guess a minority of people might find it a turn-on, but then again a minority of people probably get excited watching Toy Story, so i don't think it's a valid point...

Just my 2p

 

[Landmarkmoon]

Let's start 2010 with more shoveled crappy articles that mean jack **** to no one.

*Thumbs up*

 

[EidTelNVil]

I can't decide how to take this article. If it's a parody of neoconservative "values" being reversed in the video game medium, it's hilarious. If it's actually not a parody, it's idiotic. Someone tell me what to think, please!

 

[_Cenobite_]

Somebody should have explained to Mike Thomsen the point of Contrarian Corner.

 

[ShadowOfEden]

Also, Ronin is an angel. He was cast out from Heavean, but he certainly isn't sided with Hell. He was the legendary blacksmith of Heaven. He kills demons to make your weapons. When you fight him, his angelic form with sunglasses and tattoos is pretty weird.

 

[KINGofKILLAZ]

This is such a dull and pointless article... wtf IGN, find something INTERESTING and RELEVANT to write about, or dont write anything at all!!!

 

[KINGofKILLAZ]

"but the noble impulse to love a partner and the base lust for genital congress were irresistible. "

Sounds like the developing stages of a future rapist if you ask me...

 

[Corsia]

Bayonetta is freaking ugly. There is nothing attractive at all about her.