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Blogger -teeth- said...

"Maybe we should think of the thing in Mummy's Tummy as a very complex lump of matter that is in the process of becoming a person; but feel no sadder when it dies than if we had (say) had our tonsils removed."

The problem with "should" here is that we've evolved to have very strong feelings toward those little lumps of matter in order to protect them and perpetuate the species. Otherwise a ... well, an elegantly-written version of the usual argument, I suppose.

Sunday, 09 January, 2011

Blogger Sam Dodsworth said...

we've evolved to have very strong feelings toward those little lumps of matter in order to protect them and perpetuate the species

Not sure about this. If we have hard-wired triggers at all then it's for big heads/big eyes, not lumps. If everyone instinctively felt protective towards [foetuses][unborn children] then the question of what to call them wouldn't be politically loaded.

Also, I'd like it to be known that I was getting unreasonably irritated by adverts for Christianity long before it went mainstream. :-)

Monday, 10 January, 2011

Blogger Andrew Hickey said...

I think you've done a pretty good job of trying to remain even-handed here. Nonetheless I *also* think that I can tell which side of the argument you prefer, and that side is the opposite to the one I fall on.
But I'm wondering how much of that is actually in the text, how much is my misinterpretation, and how much is my own semi-conscious worry that my own view makes me a 'bad person' (I would worry the same way if I had the other view).
Just wondering how many others came to the conclusion that Andrew's views are opposed to their own...
Either way, another very well-written piece. Shame it's too late to put it in the Dawkins book.

Monday, 10 January, 2011

Blogger Andrew Hickey said...

NB for the three people who decided to google 'Andrew Hickey abortion' presumably as a result of that comment, I don't talk about what my own views are either, for much the same reasons as Lewis (though unlike Lewis I am married).

Tuesday, 11 January, 2011

Anonymous Anonymous said...

... a [liberal] [fundamentalist] [Romanc Catholic] like yourself. ...

We need more liberal fundamentalist Roman Catholics.

Thursday, 13 January, 2011

Blogger Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little said...

Just wondering how many others came to the conclusion that Andrew's views are opposed to their own...

Well, Andrew seems to be communicating the view that it's ridiculous to see an anti-abortion message in the ultrasound poster. Whereas Pro-Life Lobby Posturing was the first thing I thought of when I saw an ultrasound with a halo: "Oh, Gods, yet another reminder courtesy of the anti-abortion movement that who cares about the mother's life/health/situation/etc. when what's in her womb has hands and feet and a heart and oh Jesus could have been aborted too and wouldn't you feel bad about that SO DAMN TIRED OF THIS CRAP."

So, in this respect, yes to your question, very much.

Friday, 14 January, 2011

Anonymous Anonymous said...

A pagan perspective.

Friday, 14 January, 2011

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Tuesday, 18 January, 2011

Blogger Mario NC said...

"A belief in the personhood of the foetus does not, so far as I can see, logically imply that abortion is morally wrong under all circumstances, much less that it should be prohibited by law. Nearly all of us accept that persons can legitimately be sacrificed to the common good."

This reminds me of every single discussion about the Hiroshima bombings. A lot of Americans justify the actions of the US by presenting this logic: "The slaughter of thousands of people (and potential babies) because of radiation and starvation were O-K because it prevented more deaths and it was instrumental to end the war". Or in more simple words, "Killing people can be justified for the greater good". I'm not sure if every person who presents this logic is against abortion (improbable), but I do think that a lot people who supposedly believe in the "sanctity" of human life immediately contradict themselves when the concept of life enters the realm of politics or ideology.

The tricky thing with the fetus/baby logic is that, esentially, a baby is an object perceived as inocent and "pure" whereas, say, the Nazis, were adults who decided by their own free will to follow a murderer. I find this proposition utterly ridiculous, but it does present an interesting example on how the society transfers certain moral abstractions on amoral objects: "is bad to kill a baby because a baby is innocent and it doesn't know the difference between right and wrong" vs. "the japanese people deserve to die because they followed a crazy fascist"

Tuesday, 18 January, 2011

Blogger Sam Dodsworth said...

The crucial thing to remember is that a belief in the personhood of the foetus also has implications for the personhood of women - as even C S Lewis seems dimly to have realised.

Wednesday, 19 January, 2011

Anonymous Anonymous said...

All I want to know is why you people pronounce "blood" like "wood" instead of "blud", which is the totally logical way...

Sunday, 30 January, 2011