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Blogger Gavin Burrows said...

”I wonder if the comics code would have required any dating scene to be so chaste, and so marriage-focused that Lee and Ditko decided it would be better to leave the whole thing to the readers' imaginations?”

Weren't Marvel still doing Romance comics in this era which featured dating? Pretty chaste dating, yes, but dating.

”The whole etiquette of "dating" is pretty weird by today's standards... just because you were going out with a girl it didn't necessarily follow that you were, so to speak, going out with her?”

One thing that foxed me about 'Happy Days' as a teen was the way 'dates' were one off-affairs, that going out with a girl meant going to a single place on a single night and then all bets were off again. If that was how it worked how come you saw couples in the street?

I suspect the idea was all the humour was wrung out of the anxieties and social awkardness of asking the girl out in the first place, and “shall we meet in the milkshake bar on Thursday like we always do?” didn't sound like it would maximise the yucks.

...so I suppose I'm saying in a longwinded way you're right with the 'sitcom more than soap' assessment.

Tuesday, 06 December, 2016

Blogger Andrew Rilstone said...

I think that in the 50s, boys and girls socialized in separate groups (even at co-ed schools) and that a "date" was just that - a one off meeting between a boy and girl to get to know one another without anyone else around. Go back another generation, and they might have been expected to have an older chaperon with them.

Dating several different people on different nights would have been quite normal. When asked if Johnny Storm has a "girl friend", Stan Lee writes that he is still "playing the field". And since decent people didn't have sex on a first date, exclusivity was less of an issue. It might be taken for granted that after two or three dates, a couple were "going steady" or "being exclusive", or you might have been expected to tell your friends. Again, in the Olden Days people seem to talk about "being engaged" fairly casually -- with no serious expectation that they are going to get married: it doesn't seem to be much stronger than "we're going out" or "we're together." Obviously sex didn't come into it because sex only began in 1963.

I wonder if it would be fruitful to read Spider-Man in terms of a generational change of attitudes: May would have been dating Ben Parker before World War I, when everything was that much more formal and ceremonial; and she still thinks that "going for a date" with MJ means "meeting up with her, probably at her Aunt's home, to see if you get on." Liz and Flash are following high school dating mores where you can go out with more than one person until you've exchanged ID rings or something; but Betty, whose more grown-up than Peter even if she isn't actually any older than him, takes it that having had several dates with Peter, they are (in the older sense) engaged .

I'm probably wrong to say that we never see them "on a date": Peter meeting up with Betty to walk home with her constitutes a date -- an arranged meeting between a man and a woman with no-one else present. In the Daredevil issue, she -- rather sensibly -- invites both Peter and Aunt May to come to her house for an informal dinner. Not "romantic", but from her point of view, probably taking the relationship to the next level (meeting the folks.)

So Betty probably sees Peter and Liz walking home together as a "date", where it's probably just something that two people in the same class who live in the same part of town do. Not that Peter isn't being stupid, knowing how Betty feels (and how Liz feels, for that matter) to then agree to go to Liz's house to help her with her homework! (Which Liz and Flash undoubtedly see as a date, but Peter may not.)

It's complicated.

I think that the emphasis on chastity and marriage in the code-approved romance comics often makes the stories more interesting and mature than the "My Guy" photo-strips my sister used to read in the 70s.

Saturday, 10 December, 2016

Blogger Gavin Burrows said...

You're probably right.

It's no good asking me about this sort of thing.

I'm a comic fan.

Saturday, 10 December, 2016