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Blogger Warren JB said...

I gave up on Star Wars after The Force Awakens. (Given the franchise's influence on me, since decades past, it was quite a wrench) So it causes a confusing mix of disappointment and schadenfreude to learn that this film's a failure - or at least, becoming a success in the way the Transformers franchise is a success.

Saturday, 16 December, 2017

Blogger Spoilers Below said...

I quite liked this one, personally. Some spoilers below, if the username didn't tip folks off.

One of the issues I've had with both television and movies lately is that they're incomplete. Rather than focus on telling their own story, they're constantly assuring you that there's an even better story coming down the pipe, so just wait until the season finale, wait until next season, wait until the next movie comes out... And the payoff is never as good as the build up, never as convoluted as the internet theories are (nb. if that theory relies on something from a piece of subsidiary media or something which hasn't been mentioned recently, odds are it is wrong), and usually only there to get you interested in the next batch of questions. Hence my issues with some of Steven Moffat's tenure in charge of Doctor Who (but that's a different ball of wax).

Take, for example, "Who is Snoke?" This always struck me as a bizarre question. It's not something that The Force Awakens asks; all the characters seem perfectly aware of who he is. His identity isn't a mystery. He wasn't going to turn out to be Mace Windu or Jar Jar, or the stormtrooper who banged his head on the door in Star Wars. Snoke was always going to be Snoke. He gets the same treatment that the Emperor gets in the original films. There's no story of his rise to power, no detailed explanation of how he and Vader met, no discussion as to why he's able to make magical lightning shoot from his hands via the Force.

I was much more interested in the turn from "Never meet your heroes" to "Inspirational stories are actually important", and thought the way the film riffed on this theme in various ways was brilliant. Esp. Luke's completely demythologizing of the story at the beginning, "facing down the entire First Order with a laser sword", and then doing exactly that at the end, using the same lightsabre he had tossed away (well, a mental recreation of it, because the real one had been torn in half, but I digress...)

Johnson, far from being someone who dislikes Star Wars, strikes me as someone who understands the films very well, and gets why they work. I'm looking forward to seeing it again to pick up on bits that I missed the first time around.

I'm also looking forward to hearing your second impressions, Andrew, even if they are negative :)

Sunday, 17 December, 2017

Blogger Andrew Rilstone said...

Started to reply to this.

Realized I have more or less written a new article.

Will edit and publish.

Going to see filum again on Tuesday.

Sunday, 17 December, 2017

Blogger Mike Taylor said...

What does the title mean? Who is the last Jedi? And why?

That's the thing about middle parts of trilogies. Which two towers? And why?

As you probably know, the Spanish translation of the title "The Last Jedi" showed that Jedi is plural -- something that can't be determined from the English title, since the singular and plural forms of "Jedi" are the same, and adjective are not declined in accordance with the number of their object. But knowing this bit of metatextual detail, it's pretty clear that the response to the question "Who is the last Jedi?" is "That's not the question -- the question is who are the last Jedi?" And then it's clear that the answer is Rey and Ben.

Sunday, 17 December, 2017

Blogger Mike Taylor said...

Take, for example, "Who is Snoke?" This always struck me as a bizarre question. It's not something that The Force Awakens asks.

Right, exactly. No-one, coming out of Return of the Jedi in 1983, asked "Who is the Emperor?" He's the Emperor.

I thought Snoke's unexpectedly premature demise was one of the best things about the film -- and completely in keeping with the way The Last Jedi keeps you off-balance throughout. Sure, it's a trilogy. That doesn't mean everyone has to survive into the last instalment. That's not how life works. For that matter, it's not how Buffy works. With Snoke gone, the way is open for us to find out what Ben Solo is really made of. Structurally, this is fascinating. By bringing the key RotJ scene forward into the new trilogy's ESB, the new Vader is now able to take on the mantle of the new Palpatine. Which means that if Rey turns him in the last film, he can do so much more than just topple an evil supreme leader: he can become a good supreme leader.

So, yes: "This is not going to go the way you expect it to". Which is all to the good. This one might by my favourite since ANH.

Sunday, 17 December, 2017

Blogger Spoilers Below said...

Started to reply to this.

Realized I have more or less written a new article.


Holy cow! I'm flattered!

Looking forward to it :)

Sunday, 17 December, 2017

Anonymous Anonymous said...

And, at risk of being incredibly geeky: anyone who has ever played the Star Wars RPG knows that there is no paper in the Star Wars universe. This is not, of course, a very big deal:
But isn't this a piece of lore from the RPG? It's not something that has ever been explicit in (what is now considered) canon. We might not have ever seen anyone use paper in the previous movies - but in a world where people read novels and news on their kindles, keep their diaries on their phones and sign for deliveries on electric pads, this is not necessarily unusual, nor a sign that no one ever uses paper for anything...

a side quest to an alien casino
In some ways this was the bit that struck me as the most awkward - the resistance are fleeing from a powerful armada, threatening to overwhelm them at any minute as they have limited fuel, yet they have time to fly off to search for someone who can help them in a "heist". On the other hand, referring back to the aforesaid RPG, it is exactly the sort of thing the Player Characters would find themselves doing (I'm sure my characters have been in some of those scenes...)

The Force Awakens left us with a series of big, interesting questions; and fans have spent two years coming up with more or less interesting answers for them. Johnson doesn’t merely fail to answer the questions – he seems actively uninterested in them.
I tend to think this is a good thing - When Star Wars has answered "Big Questions" in the past, they have ususally made a complete hash of it. The "Mysterious Religion" that no one believes in turns out to have been the intergalactic police force less than 20 years ago. The all-powerful Empire only has a similar vintage...
Big, interesting questions are good - They allow fans to concoct theories, and writers to build on them in future instalments. Answers are boring - they close off any further development and deny many possibilities. I always felt one of the problems with Nu-Who was it's unseemly haste in providing answers...

Monday, 18 December, 2017

Blogger Mike Taylor said...

tmellis exactly nailed my position on Big Questions and their answers. I've only ever encountered one prequel for which the answers it provided to the earlier work's backstory questions was satisfying. That is The Silmarillion, and it works because it was sixty years in the making, most of it predating the "earlier" work The Lord of the Rings. Unless you are J. R. R. Tolkien, it's generally best to leave Big Questions open.

Monday, 18 December, 2017