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Blogger JWH said...

Great post Andrew, thanks for writing.

It seems absurd that this is the ground chosen for this kind of fight or debate. I can appreciate that the issues around statues might be different, the issues around institutions that the person in question founded or financed might be different. But this?

Sunday, 31 December, 2017

Blogger Mark Schaal said...

I wonder if it is reasonable to draw a connection between "movie/TV stories don't have to make sense, they just need to express an emotion" and "political/newspaper comments don't have to make sense, they just need to express and emotion".


On my optimistic days I believe that this is merely the internet amplifying the most bigoted 0.1% of the population and I have no troubling believing that the worst 1 in 1000 people is quite an asshat. On my pessimistic days I note that 10-20% of my country are hardcore Trump supporters and I still haven't come to terms with what it means that 1 in 5 people have a thought process and belief system that is alien to me. I whisper "tribalism is a heck of a drug" to myself and try to be self-critical enough to guard against that, but I don't feel that is sufficient.

Sunday, 31 December, 2017

Blogger Warren JB said...

They may be wrong, but I don't know if I'm comfortable with... is 'dehumanising' too strong of a term? It's the gist of this comment anyway, and I feel it's a significant part of the problem of political alignments. If one side's squawking about snowflakes and lefties and commies, the other side's going on about asshats and the 'very old and very stupid', at the very least. (I could go on about how I hear it's bad to label people, and rightly so, but I've yet to find someone who doesn't do it. Tribalism is indeed a heck of a drug, Mark.) It all contributes to that feeling of being told 'you don't think as we do so we'll roll right over you' by the barbarians at the gate - whichever barbarians those happen to be.

I think the latter part of your blog post here is the closest to the truth that I've seen, Andrew: fear of change, and a lot of frustration to go with it. But I dunno. I'm not saying my own viewpoint is superior, because I have trouble knowing what it is. (It's not 'well maybe those people have a point in keeping Colston's name up', I hasten to add.) I think it's just that I want all the shrieking and namecalling to stop, or at least quiet down a bit.

Monday, 01 January, 2018

Blogger Mark Schaal said...

Words describe things, or in other words, label things. If we aren't allowed to use words to describe people because it is dehumanising to describe people, then I don't see how to have communication.

I understand that some people if you describe an action of theirs as, pick a term - sexist, will have the response "you said a negative thing about me therefore I will deny it and reject your viewpoints". However other people will have the response "I didn't see that, let me examine my behavior and decide whether it is something I think I should change". Warren, I personally try to respond to your namecalling of me as dehumanising in the second way and I do not think of you as a barbarian at the gate because of it. I do think your view of the world as having the "one side" and "the other side" is extremely reductive and I totally disagree with it, but again my disagreement with you does not make me think of you as a barbarian at the gate.

Monday, 01 January, 2018

Blogger Andrew Rilstone said...

Mea Cuplpa. I ought not to have type "very old and very stupid". I intended to say something like:

"It is perfectly natural for an older person to regret it when things changes. A wise old person accepts that change is the way of the world and always has been. But some old people are not so wise: they think that the natural order of things, all the bus stops would have stayed in the same places, all the shops would have carried on selling the same brands, and all the theater names would have stayed the same. Once you think this, it is a very small step to thinking that someone in particular rerouted the buses and invented a new kind of coffee specifically to annoy you personally. The most stupid of all think they have identified this person, and think that if they could only catch up with him then everything would stop changing once and for all."

Tuesday, 02 January, 2018

Blogger Gavin Burrows said...

"And who on earth was Nicholas of Tolentine?"

And why did he renounce the Jedi order?

I would rather believe in the more benign possibility as well, but the use of contemporary internet buzzwords such as "SJW" or "snowflake" don't really match the notion of old fuddy-duddies who got stuck several decades back.

Wednesday, 03 January, 2018