Roiling Vortex

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wallisface on Duskmourn

1 day ago

DemonDragonJ it can definitely been interpreted as a bit of a grey-area, though historically red has always had both "damage cannot be prevented" and "players cannot gain life" effects, while black has the effect of _ "if a player would gain life, they lose that much instead"_.

From a gameplay perspective, black has almost no need for preventing lifegain as it typically wins on boardstate (which explains why these decks typically don’t play any such effects), whereas red normally wins by rapidly depleting its own resources, so needs effects like this to combat counterplay (which explains why we see a bunch of lifegain prevention being competively played in such decks - examples being Skullcrack and Roiling Vortex).

MrSilk on Bridge to Sanctuary - Land Prison/Punishment

2 weeks ago

nuperokaso These are outstanding suggestions.

The Ornithopter is really just a free flying dork so its removable.

Board the Weatherlight is mostly there to snag Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or Ensnaring Bridge depending on if I need to tutor for Karma (for the urborg + karma combo).. Or if my opponent is beating me down with creatures

Knight of the White Orchid or Loyal Warhound are great suggestions. I was also thinking about Weathered Wayfarer to do something similar

I also really like Roiling Vortex and its interaction with Personal Sanctuary.. I've never actually seen that card.

I would love to have more prison/lockdown pieces in here somewhere too.

In my notes "possible upcoming changes" that I made last time I looked into updating the list, I kind of noticed a few things in testing which back up what you're suggesting, but I never actually made the changes to the list.

Id love it if you made your own version of this decklist and shared it with me. I think it could be a really fun list to play! Thanks for the suggestions!

nuperokaso on Bridge to Sanctuary - Land Prison/Punishment

3 weeks ago

• Don't play Ornithopter, it does nothing for your game plan.
• Roiling Vortex also works with Personal Sanctuary. You may want to add one or two.
• Board the Weatherlight doesn't work for you. Cards that you are interested in are not Historic.
• You have a lot of mana intense cards, and as such you need some mana acceleration. You may add some Knight of the White Orchid or Loyal Warhound. They work well with your Path to Exile. Or you may go the other way with acceleration - Gemstone Caverns decrease your hand size which is fine with Ensnaring Bridge.

legendofa on

4 months ago

Wait, that Sulfuric Vortex should be Roiling Vortex. Sulfuric has full life gain prevention, which also clashes with Raphael.

wallisface on burn deck help to refurbish

5 months ago

9-lives:

• Roiling Vortex has an activated ability that turns off lifegain - your opponent shouldn’t be gaining any life!

• your deck would be a LOT faster if you optimised it. You seem to be refusing that notion, but it’s true. Playtest your own brew against the meta burn list - i’m willing to bet they out-race you at least 75% of the time.

• you need to be aware that your deck is very “different from the competitive” - lots of small changes add up to a very different deck, and one that sounds quite underperforming.

• i’m not saying 'this is competitive because it's been used a million times', the established list is competitive because it’s able to compete against most of the most commonly seen decks in the meta - that’s the entire purpose of being “competitive”. It is not competitive to lose to the most commonly played decks.

9-lives on burn deck help to refurbish

5 months ago

Hmmm. wallisface there isn't a way I can make it any faster, haha! Even if I cut down to 60 and keep all of the fastest burn spells, it will still be the same speed as what I have now. Roiling Vortex isn only 1 life per turn. Most lifegain decks are gaining more than at least 1 life per turn. I have a problem because one of the decks I played against uses 10 life gain on a creature with flicker. Every time he flickers it, he gains 10 life. The only response was to kill the creature, which I might or might not be able to depending upon my card draw. My deck is very slightly different from the competitive, with the only thing missing is Monastery Swiftspear, or Goblin Guide, and possibly not having Eidolon of the Great Revel. The problem with the meta in tournaments is that everyone is expecting a certain deck to have certain cards in it. Then, they try to optimize their decks based on that. Nothing new happens until someone new comes along with a new deck type, and then that becomes competitive based on how well it performs. You can't just say 'this is competitive because it's been used a million times'.

legendofa on burn deck help to refurbish

5 months ago

9-lives Okay, that's a good starting point.

First thing I want to mention is that if you describe a deck as competitive, there's a very strong connotation that it is capable of succeeding in a tournament setting. Think of it as shorthand for tournament-competitive. That's why people have been questioning that point, and if you've only used it against a few people, that's not going to fit the community definition. Competitive-casual isn't binary; it's a wide spectrum, but the "competitive" end of that spectrum is well-defined. Just to get everyone on the same page.

For actual deck suggestions, Wear / Tear is a reasonable sideboard option in addition to, or in place of, Rip Apart. Lifegain is a pretty hard counter to burn if you let it get established. I see Skullcrack and Roiling Vortex, so the next response to lifegain is to address the sources. Are your opponents gaining life from creatures, enchantments, or spells? Are they gaining big chunks of life, or steady streams? Remove the Ajani's Welcomes and Soul's Attendants or whatever and stop the life gain at the source.

Since you're committing to 60+ cards, you need to get to your key cards ASAP. Card draw becomes highly important. Would you consider turning this into a more combo-centric deck instead of leaning on burn as much?

wallisface on burn deck help to refurbish

5 months ago

Roiling Vortex is the answer to lifegain, which you’re already running, so your deck shouldn’t have any issue there unless it’s too slow. But in general dedicated lifegain isn’t a matchup i’d expect to see in any remotely-competitive scene, and this makes me think Balaam__s point is correct here, that this thread shouldn’t be tagged as “competitive”, because it simply isn’t, and the advice you’re going to get isn’t going to match your expectations.

Burn decks should also be easily-fast enough that graveyard shenanigans aren’t an issue (Dredge can probably outrace burn, but that deck doesn’t exist at the moment), Sane goes for control decks using counter-magic. If these matchups are a problem for you it’s just another indicator the deck is playing too slowly.