#wordpress-ui logs for 2014-09-10
- Sep 10 20:00:30 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- accessiblejoe: Yes, and a potential accessibility best practices page in the Core Handbook.
- Sep 10 20:00:29 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- End of accessibility meeting in 3... 2... 1...
- Sep 10 19:59:26 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- Just to record this, are we talking about a handbook for contributors to the accessibility team?
- Sep 10 19:59:22 +0000 2014
- sams
- I'll turn it on once you have your outline. ;)
- Sep 10 19:58:16 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Let's do that. sams can you turn it on, and we'll work on an outline?
- Sep 10 19:57:55 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- Moving over now, to lurk......
- Sep 10 19:57:37 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- We're coming up on the switch to the dev meeting on #wordpress-dev
- Sep 10 19:57:08 +0000 2014
- sams
- davidakennedy1: Depends on the team. I have spreadsheets tracking the progress of various handbooks. For polyglots, I made an outline, turned on the plugin, created blank pages, and started creating content with a group of others.
- Sep 10 19:56:11 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Sams: How have teams done it in the past? Do they turn it out and draft live, so to speak? Or get something together first?
- Sep 10 19:55:57 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- So we have two initiatives shaping up, writing and ticket triage
- Sep 10 19:55:05 +0000 2014
- sams
- And asking the meta team (like me) to turn on the handbook plugin.
- Sep 10 19:54:41 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- Training is a big part of any effort to institutionalize accessibility in an organization.
- Sep 10 19:54:23 +0000 2014
- sams
- It's just about organizing it differently.
- Sep 10 19:54:18 +0000 2014
- sams
- I think most of the content is already there.
- Sep 10 19:54:06 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- But sams, you bring up a good point. I think we could benefit from a handbook. One thing at a time. :)
- Sep 10 19:53:21 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- We have to think in terms of helping everyone understand accessibility practices by reaching out.
- Sep 10 19:53:01 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Yeah, I think this is different. There are benefits to keeping everything together, dev-wise. Contributing to the Accessibility team is different from writing and thinking about accessible code practices.
- Sep 10 19:51:23 +0000 2014
- sams
- davidakennedy1: Most teams have a contributor handbook, fwiw.
- Sep 10 19:50:44 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- sams: Not really. We have some tools and theme guidelines, but nothing dev specific.
- Sep 10 19:50:26 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- We have on our to-do list the insertion of accessibility information into appropriate places beyond where we have info now.
- Sep 10 19:49:46 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- There's a whole section in the core handbook on best practices; a section included in that for accessibility would be great.
- Sep 10 19:49:20 +0000 2014
- sams
- You can do that. I can get it on make/core when it's ready.
- Sep 10 19:49:10 +0000 2014
- sams
- Are there no such docs on make/accessibility?
- Sep 10 19:49:06 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- I imagine we can draft and post to our P2 first.
- Sep 10 19:48:50 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- accessiblejoe: Who's the best person to ask about the workflow for this?
- Sep 10 19:48:27 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Okay, this is something I'd love to work on. And yes tomharrigan, please help. :)
- Sep 10 19:47:53 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Nothing long here. Simple. Like the rest of the docs.
- Sep 10 19:47:29 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Would it be helpful to have a best practices page for accessibility in the Dev Handbook? http://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/
- Sep 10 19:47:22 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- davidakennedy1......you have me hanging.....please continue! :-)
- Sep 10 19:46:25 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Something I've been thinking about… documentation. We have the Accessibility page in the Codex, the Theme Guidelines, etc.
- Sep 10 19:46:05 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- Thanks, sams, I will definitely review.
- Sep 10 19:45:23 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- How about now? I think we've discussed that ticket sufficiently...
- Sep 10 19:45:05 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Also: I have an idea I want to through out whenever is a good time.
- Sep 10 19:44:49 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- +1, not stupid, definitely -- but tags on tickets need to be taken very, very literally...
- Sep 10 19:43:23 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- joedolson: then I was stupid...I thought has patch meant all that was needed was to be integrated into core. I'm glad this came up. Thanks, Joe.
- Sep 10 19:42:09 +0000 2014
- trac-bot
- davidakennedy1: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/15926 minor, Awaiting Review, jane->(no owner), assigned, Add alt attribute support for Custom Header functionality
- Sep 10 19:42:01 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- _Redd: "has patch" means there is a patch. If the patch can be applied, then it should be tested. "Needs testing" specifically means that the provider of the patch or the person who submitted the bug report is looking for 2nd party confirmation that the issue is solved/exists (depending on context.)
- Sep 10 19:41:23 +0000 2014
- sams
- joedolson: You should have permissions now.
- Sep 10 19:40:59 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- I really need to take off - I'll see everyone on Monday at 10?
- Sep 10 19:40:11 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- I think that's already understood and in the comments, per comments 8 and 21, which discuss patches to the custom header options. But the title and description need clarification so that people investigating the ticket without reading the whole thing have a better context.
- Sep 10 19:39:06 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- Sorry to be so ignorant about these things...
- Sep 10 19:38:54 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- So "has patch"....is the typical interpretation that testing is needed, then?
- Sep 10 19:38:23 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- okay, I just gave you what my summary of the issue is - based on testing on the front-end - earlier in this chat, and you said something that was further helpful based on your knowledge of the back-end. Can you add that in the comments?
- Sep 10 19:38:14 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- "Custom header images does not support alt attribute", IMO
- Sep 10 19:37:53 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- Needs testing is only applicable to usable patches.
- Sep 10 19:37:34 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- The only other thing I am wondering about right now is, I see no "needs testing" comments....
- Sep 10 19:37:31 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- Then you can always send your comments to me, and I can turn it into a ticket or comment, as appropriate.
- Sep 10 19:37:11 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- I'm afraid to write tickets and comment on tickets right now because I don't know how is the "right" way to say stuff. I can test and tell you what is broken but I don't want to say things wrong.
- Sep 10 19:37:11 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- Well, *I* can't, as far as I can tell. But some people have that power. If I can do it, I don't know how to...
- Sep 10 19:36:36 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Okay, i didn't know you could update the title, description, and summary of tickets
- Sep 10 19:36:10 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- This ticket's title and description really should be updated; it's flat out wrong as it is.
- Sep 10 19:35:44 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- Too many tickets already, and the continuity is lost if we open more tickets........
- Sep 10 19:35:28 +0000 2014
- sams
- Summaries can be updated if things morph as well.
- Sep 10 19:35:21 +0000 2014
- sams
- Yep. No reason to open new tickets.
- Sep 10 19:35:18 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Yeah, we could just add a comment to clear things up a bit.
- Sep 10 19:34:57 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- In general, I'm opposed to opening a new ticket if there's an existing ticket for the topic. It's still the same issue.
- Sep 10 19:33:25 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- A lot of tickets don't have clear titles, but the issues are made more clear in the continuing comments; I think the intent in this ticket is fine when you read through the comments.
- Sep 10 19:31:56 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Okay. But what you just said and what I just said is not really very clear in the existing ticket.
- Sep 10 19:31:29 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- I think that this ticket just needs an updated patch; there's a lot of discussion history in the ticket that should be retained.
- Sep 10 19:31:00 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Would it be better for you to open the ticket since you know how to word this, or should I?
- Sep 10 19:30:34 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- the current ticket is poorly worded and has a lot of pieces (e.g. the background image bit)
- Sep 10 19:30:03 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Okay, perfect, Joe, that sounds like it's what I'm looking at. So, I think we should open a separate ticket, since that's asking for something very straightforward and clear to fix.
- Sep 10 19:29:52 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- Yes. I'm not saying that the patch will be accurate; but whether the patch is current is not a reflection of whether the ticket is current.
- Sep 10 19:29:24 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- joedolson; doesn't WordPress core change with each version, so that a ticket for one version is not necessarily applicable to other versions? And did I make sense here?
- Sep 10 19:29:21 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- And, to be entirely accurate, what's really the case is that the custom header image functionality doesn't provide a method to produce an alt attribute. The ticket, as worded, is highly inaccurate.
- Sep 10 19:29:12 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- joedolson: just a big question of ignorance here---let me see if I can phrase this....
- Sep 10 19:28:40 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- because the patch is for something like 3.8 or something.
- Sep 10 19:28:27 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- That's not confirming whether the "patch" or anything like that works from the ticket. That's saying that 4.0 has an empty alt attribute on the header image.
- Sep 10 19:28:16 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- _Redd I don't know what you mean by "current" - if the ticket isn't closed, it's current.
- Sep 10 19:27:39 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- joedolson: so, what is a proper way of updating a ticket to be "current"?
- Sep 10 19:27:38 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Or whether we should raise an entirely new ticket.
- Sep 10 19:27:31 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- But I'm not sure how or what is okay to write on the ticket yet because I'm so new.
- Sep 10 19:27:17 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- I helped Redd a little with this. Specifically, I can confirm that it seems clear that header alt text is not being passed. There is an empty alt attribute, but no text, so we need a patch that gets the alt-text associated with the image and pulls it there.
- Sep 10 19:26:35 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- Version indicates when the issue exists back from. However, that ticket needs some refinement to be meaningful - give a background image an alt attribute is meaningless.
- Sep 10 19:26:12 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- katherinemancuso there will be a link for contributors, and there will be another release of tickets too
- Sep 10 19:25:43 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- Are we supposed to actually test on such an old version of WordPress that is listed in the ticket?
- Sep 10 19:25:29 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Also - WordCamp SF sold out before I could buy a ticket. Does anyone know if that's going to mean I'm totally locked out of attending contributor days with the rest of you?
- Sep 10 19:25:23 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- When I tested the ticket, I assumed that it was a theme issue, because of the diffs...but I tested on my 4.0 site...
- Sep 10 19:24:53 +0000 2014
- trac-bot
- _Redd: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/15926 minor, Awaiting Review, jane->(no owner), assigned, Give header and background images alt tags
- Sep 10 19:24:53 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- joedolson: legacy issues.....we looked at ticket #15926 on Monday. When you read the ticket, it applies to version 3.0.....
- Sep 10 19:22:44 +0000 2014
- davidakennedy1
- Hi all: sorry I'm a bit late. Had another meeting run over.
- Sep 10 19:22:09 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Okay, I'll be there on Monday. The testing time is 10 AM our time, Joe
- Sep 10 19:21:49 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- We could use some time look at some of the tickets.
- Sep 10 19:19:46 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- I will commit to being there next Monday to help guide the process.
- Sep 10 19:19:19 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- Okay, well then I need a guide to what screens need testing, as I've previously only tested issues.
- Sep 10 19:17:02 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- katherinemancuso There's always testing the current core; finding new issues to raise is easily as important as testing patches for fixes in progress.
- Sep 10 19:15:14 +0000 2014
- katherinemancuso
- So, here's a thing I would like to bring up - would we like to test without Rian on Mondays in September? Or should we reschedule? I am happy to test, but I really need someone who can apply patches to trunk or there's nothing to test.
- Sep 10 19:14:36 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- _Redd Long outstanding meaning how many versions back the issue has existed, not how long the ticket has been raised. There are always new issues to raise.
- Sep 10 19:13:36 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- "Legacy" just means long outstanding issues.
- Sep 10 19:12:46 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- joedolson: can you perhaps make a list of "legacy" issues, as such? Or am I asking too much?
- Sep 10 19:12:06 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- I agree with johnbillion that having a list is helpul in a major way
- Sep 10 19:12:06 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- johnbillion Yes - you wouldn't be the first to be confused by that!
- Sep 10 19:11:51 +0000 2014
- joedolson
- One thing I'd like to focus on in 4.1 is some legacy issues; there are a variety of outstanding issues that have nothing to do with release-specific features but need to be handled.
- Sep 10 19:11:27 +0000 2014
- johnbillion
- Oh wow I have just realised there are two Joes
- Sep 10 19:11:27 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- I absolutely love what is being said here......coordination between the accessibility team and devs at the outset of 4.1
- Sep 10 19:09:38 +0000 2014
- sams
- The core dev chat starts in 50 minutes. It'd be worth attending, after checking out the agenda: http://make.wordpress.org/core/2014/09/10/910-agenda/
- Sep 10 19:09:03 +0000 2014
- sams
- I'd mention that 4.1 development is starting soon. If there are larger things you want to get into the release, now's the time to propose them.
- Sep 10 19:08:57 +0000 2014
- johnbillion
- I have something if nobody else has an item
- Sep 10 19:08:37 +0000 2014
- _Redd
- At this point, only to make a point to unite for the twentyfifteen theme, if we can
- Sep 10 19:08:06 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- Does anyone have an item for the meeting?
- Sep 10 19:05:02 +0000 2014
- accessiblejoe
- Accessibility team meeting starting now.